S2E13 Mike Relich - Board of Directors and AI

[00:00:00] $100K Savings or $10M Inventory Cut? Pick One

[00:00:01] Casey Golden: Save $100,000 a year writing product descriptions or cut $10 million worth of inventory? You can only pick one

[00:00:09] Ricardo Belmar: Easy call, but Mike Relich, board director for Tilly's, says too many retailers still pick the product descriptions, and pitch his board on LLMs and vector databases, he'll ask which metric you're gonna move for justification

[00:00:22] Casey Golden: This episode of Blade to Greatness live from RetailClub AI Festival. Mike takes us inside the boardroom to show what gets an AI project funded!

[00:00:41] Inside the Boardroom: What Gets an AI Project Funded

[00:00:41] Ricardo Belmar: Welcome to Blade to Greatness, the podcast where retail leaders sharpen their edge one critical skill at a time as we uncover the essential traits every retail leader needs to thrive. I'm Ricardo Belmar

[00:00:53] Casey Golden: And I'm Casey Golden.

[00:00:55] Each episode, we're joined by a guest who brings one leadership skill into sharp [00:01:00]focus. This time, it's a skill that doesn't get talked about nearly enough, how retail executives work with their board of directors, especially when the ask is AI

[00:01:12] Ricardo Belmar: This is season 2, episode 13, and it comes to you live and in person from the RetailClub AI Festival in Huntington Beach, where we sat down with Mike Relich, global retail chief executive, operational leader, and board director for Tillys

[00:01:24] Casey Golden: Mike has sat on both sides of the boardroom. He's the former co-CEO of PacSun, held C-level roles at Guess, Lucky, Crate & Barrel, and Wet Seal, and he spent more than 40 years in retail, a lot of it running technology. He used to ask boards for capital. Now he's the one deciding who gets it

[00:01:46] Ricardo Belmar: We start with the disconnect. Mike says plenty of retail boards are full of former merchants who think AI means ChatGPT, and it's on management to teach them the difference. Then he hits us with his test, a project that saves [00:02:00] 100,000 a year on product descriptions, or one that takes 10 million out of inventory.

[00:02:04] Which one gets funded, and why are so many retailers chasing the smaller prize?

[00:02:09] Casey Golden: Then Mike walks us through what he needs to hear before he approves a dime. Which metrics will move whether your data is ready or not, because with AI garbage in now means bad decisions at scale, plus a pilot with real KPIs and real costs and a business leader who has to own the outcome.

[00:02:29] We get into why your brand's reputation is now being written on Reddit and fed straight into the LLMs

[00:02:36] Ricardo Belmar: If you're heading into 2027 planning, stick around for Mike's advice on sizing up your board and pitching AI as part of your business strategy.

[00:02:44] But before we dive in, let me tell you about the next event the Retail Razor Podcast Network is joining, Retail Agent Con. On Tuesday, November 17th from 11:00 AM to 3:00 PM Eastern, join me and more than 540 of your retail peers at Retail Agent Con, a live [00:03:00] virtual event from our friends at IHL Group with ClearSight AI.

[00:03:03] It's an honest look at what AI agents are really doing today across merchandising, order management, inventory, and store operations, which ones are real, and what has to change in your org chart to make them stick. You'll hear from retail leaders like Glenn Allison of Tractor Supply, Scot Seiger of David's Bridal, and Justin Ebing of Artisan Lane Furniture, plus Dr.

[00:03:21] Janet Sherlock on getting agents and people working together, and IHL's Greg Buzek and Jerry Sheldon, plus yours truly. Registration is free for retailers at retailagentcon.com. And technology providers, good news, sponsorships are still available. That's four hours of real-world insight you can use heading into NRF's big show. Register today.

[00:03:42] Thank you, Retail Agent Con, for helping to bring you this episode of Blade to Greatness

[00:03:47] Casey Golden: Now let's welcome Mike, board director for Tilly's, to Blades to Greatness

[00:03:52] Why Retail Boards Think AI Just Means ChatGPT

[00:03:58] Ricardo Belmar: Welcome back, everybody. We [00:04:00] are back in the Retail Razor tent, and this time we are joined by Mike Relich, who's currently on the board at, uh, Tilly's, among many other things that you're doing. But I think I'll, I'll skip over the list for now. Well, everybody heard that in our intro before.

[00:04:13] But, uh, one of the interesting conversations I at least feel doesn't often happen when people are looking for, uh, you know, podcasts about AI or talking about what's happening in retail, uh, i- is really a question about, you know, how does your board perceive AI in your business, and how does your board react when you, if you're the CIO or some...

[00:04:36] another C-suite, and you're going to the board saying, "Here's what we're gonna do that's gonna use AI." Are you communicating in the same way, is kind of one of the questions I always ask, and are you understanding each other when you do that? And you've got an interesting perspective, I think, Mike, 'cause you've been on both sides.

[00:04:51] been CIO, CEO, you've been in that chair many times, and now you're on the board side. So, uh, I guess maybe I'll start us off by saying, you know, [00:05:00] what do you look for? What, what do you... Whether it's, you know, what do you want people to say, or what do you not want to hear, maybe, is the, the more interesting question, too, um, about how your company uses AI.

[00:05:09] Mike Relich: Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, being on both sides of the table, it's interesting 'cause I've sat in front of boards and asked them for capital- Yes you know, for, for IT projects, and then now I'm on the other side. People are asking me, and I'm trying to decide whether are you worthy of this capital. Mm. And I think with AI, at least from what I've experienced, is there's a big disconnect in the boardroom about what AI really is. Mm. Because, you know, l- let's face it, and, you know, I think it varies from board to board.

[00:05:36] Mm. So I can't say, you know, I'm gonna make a general statement, and I can't say that applies to everybody. But a lot of retail boards are filled with retail merchants who, you know, twenty years ago, they were really, really good. Right. And now they're running these. And if you ask them what AI is, they think AI is ChatGPT.

[00:05:55] Mm. They, they think AI is generative AI. Yeah. And [00:06:00] basically, I think that, you know, it's incumbent on management to educate boards on what AI really is. Because it, it's interesting, you know. I can tell you, there's o- one board member I know, he's not on Tilly's board, but he's on the board of, I mean, a number...

[00:06:15] I'm not gonna say the

[00:06:17] Casey Golden: Yeah, no. You know, because- please don't. yeah.

[00:06:18] Mike Relich: Please don't.

[00:06:18] Ricardo Belmar: Please don't. Yeah, exactly.

[00:06:19] Mike Relich: But, no, but these are household names you would know. Yeah. And I was-- had lunch with him a while back and I was talking about AI, and what he said was, "Well, I really don't care about AI." And I was thinking like, "Oh, okay.

[00:06:32] Well, then how are you gonna go and judge- Mm-hmm ... these requests that come?"

[00:06:37] Casey Golden: Right.

[00:06:38] Ricardo Belmar: Right.

[00:06:38] Right. But... And they'll come.

[00:06:41] Mike Relich: They will

[00:06:41] Casey Golden: come, they will come. Yeah. Uh, curious what does the board think when, when the dollars are coming in for the cost of AI and, and looking at more of maybe like a long-term ROI?

[00:06:55] AI Is Transformational, So Why Are We Using It for Small Wins?

[00:06:55] Mike Relich: Yes. Well, I... So I think, and this is my opinion as a board member- [00:07:00]I think that basically AI is con- has- is gonna be a transformational technology. It's gonna change the world. But the way that we're actually using it isn't necessarily transformational. Right. So if I can come in and use it for expense reduction and-

[00:07:15] Casey Golden: drop.

[00:07:17] Mike Relich: That's it. Yeah, yeah. Big

[00:07:18] Casey Golden: Mic drop.

[00:07:19] Mike Relich: Exactly. You know, and maybe I can write a product description faster. Maybe I can go and answer customer, you know, call faster, or maybe I can summarize a meeting faster. I mean, those are all great things. They'll save money, and i'll take it.

[00:07:32] Ricardo Belmar: but- But

[00:07:32] Mike Relich: great things, sure. But it's taking existing processes and making them more efficient.

[00:07:35] Right. But what I think what's really missing from AI is the question of, what can I do now with AI? What does A- AI enable that I couldn't do before?

[00:07:46] One, because of

[00:07:47] Casey Golden: constraints. I think that's key.

[00:07:47] Mike Relich: constraints.

[00:07:48] Casey Golden: I do. Couldn't do right. We could be doing some of the coolest things that we've dreamed of- Yeah ... that we've never been able to do.

[00:07:58] and it's- And we're doing stupid shit.

[00:07:59] Mike Relich: We're, [00:08:00] we're doing stupid shit ex- exact- I mean,

[00:08:01] ex- that is, is my thing. And so- Yeah ... you know, I mean, there's two buckets. There's one, is there stuff I couldn't do 'cause I couldn't afford it- Right ... or stuff I couldn't do because it was, like, impossible?

[00:08:09] I mean, if I look at AI, think about, you know, how planners deal with merchant- with, with inventory. Mm-hmm. I mean, you know, they just don't have enough brain power to go and look at a SKU by seasonality, by location, by geography, by promo, by blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Yeah. AI can do all of that, but are we using it that way?

[00:08:27] $100K Product Descriptions vs. $10M Inventory: Which Gets Funded?

[00:08:27] Mike Relich: And so I always tell people, you know, this is a question that I'm gonna ask in my presentation. If you had a project that, let's say, could save $100,000 a year writing product descriptions, or you had another one basically that could save you, reduce your inventory by $10 million- million-

[00:08:45] Ricardo Belmar: Hmm.

[00:08:45] Mike Relich: and, you know, you can only pick one because of, you know, resource constraints, which one would you pick?

[00:08:51] Casey Golden: inventory

[00:08:52] Mike Relich: Of course you'd pick inventory. Yeah. But what are we doing? I have a

[00:08:55] Casey Golden: person. Our whole job in retail is to move[00:09:00]

[00:09:00] Mike Relich: It's to move inventory. And what's the biggest use of working capital? It's inventory. Inventory. But what, we come in, people, you look here, "Oh, my God, you know, we're gonna go and we could write these cool product descriptions.

[00:09:10] We could do this and that." Yeah.

[00:09:11] And I just think, okay, that's cool, but, like, you're missing the, missing the boat. So to me, as a board member, I don't look at, if someone comes in and says, you know, they start talking about LLMs and- Mm-hmm ... you know, I need a vector database. I'm like, "Okay, get the F out of here."

[00:09:25] You know, I'm really saying, what is the business case here? Yeah. What business value? Now, first of all, you gotta tell me what metrics are you gonna change? Are sales gonna increase? Mm. Are we gonna get a margin increase? Right. You know, are you gonna decrease markdowns? Right. You know, in the store, basically, you know, are we gonna get better labor efficiency?

[00:09:43] Garbage In, Bad Decisions at Scale: Fix Your Data First

[00:09:43] Mike Relich: You know, is shrink gonna go down? I mean- Right ... you gotta tell me the metrics, okay? Yeah. That's number one. Yeah. And then number two, we all know that we need data. If you put

[00:09:52] Ricardo Belmar: bad data mm-hmm ...in

[00:09:53] Mike Relich: AI, all you're gonna do is, you, you've heard the s-

[00:09:55] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah out? Right. So this is

[00:09:57] Casey Golden: be garbage in- We invented

[00:09:58] Ricardo Belmar: it.

[00:09:59] Mike Relich: Yeah. [00:10:00] Exactly,

[00:10:00] Ricardo Belmar: but this is gonna be garbage and bad exactly. Exactly.

[00:10:06] Casey Golden: And that's the thing. Is it is You're gonna make bad decisions faster.

[00:10:08] It is that bad decisions faster- Yeah ... and so fast that you could have five bad decisions happen in such a short amount of time that you

[00:10:18] Ricardo Belmar: You can't even recover. Right

[00:10:19] Mike Relich: Exactly. Right

[00:10:20] Casey Golden: Because it, it it can ... It's, it's being at scale with these, with some of these decisions that are being made. Right. retail doesn't get to fail quietly.

[00:10:30] Mike Relich: No, no, it doesn't. Yeah. And, I mean, the problem is a lot of these boards, if you come in and say, "Hey, you know, I n- I need to fix my data infrastructure," they're gonna look at it, "Oh, this is an IT plumbing program.

[00:10:39] No, no- Right ... we, we can't afford it." Yeah. But you really have to go and s- spread it as, you know, "I'm doing AI enablement." Mm-hmm. Right? Right. But you have to make that investment. Yeah. And, but, it, you know, it... but if, you know, the minute you say, "Well, it's AI plumbing," then they're like, "Ugh, get out of here." What

[00:10:53] Ricardo Belmar: That is It's-

[00:10:55] Mike Relich: you gotta, you, you gotta basically- Yeah ... structure it as ABOT, AI enablement. [00:11:00] And then I think, you know, they need to say, "Well, do we have the right data?" And now, you know, you look at a lot of these AI solutions, like, you know, around personalization and, you know, that kind of stuff.

[00:11:10] It's easy, 'cause I get a GA, you know, Google Analytics feed. I get some transaction feed. Away I go, and it's pretty simple. But when you start talking about inventory, basically now I've gotta bring stuff in from my POS system. I gotta bring- Right ... purchase orders. I gotta look at my margins. You're bringing a lot more data.

[00:11:25] And the problem is in, you know, being a CIO for 15 years, a lot of these systems don't agree with each other. So what happens with aI when this system says- yeah .. I got 100, this system says I got 50.

[00:11:37] Ricardo Belmar: Right ...okay, well, AI's not out. No.

[00:11:39] Casey Golden: And there's one shoe left on the fl- in the back that I would like. Could

[00:11:45] Ricardo Belmar: Exactly. Can somebody please find it for me? Right. Right.

[00:11:46] Mike Relich: That's right. Well, or somebody orders it and, you but 10 people order it, and guess what, and you cancel nine orders. Yeah. You yeah.

[00:11:52] Reddit Is Writing Your Brand Reputation Into the LLMs

[00:11:52] Mike Relich: And then what happens is everyone complains about it on Reddit.

[00:11:56] And then they, the, the next model's training, and it says, "Oh, my God, retail [00:12:00] x has got sucky customer

[00:12:01] Casey Golden: Oh, my gosh. I think that that's a very interesting thing is, um- Reddit community is a very specific community.

[00:12:10] Yes. Yeah. Um, I d- I think a lot of brands' customers that are using some of this output, that was never their customer base. Yeah. Um, I've never used Reddit so much in my life in the last six months- um, because of these ChatGPTs and these LLMs that are using it as a base. I'm like, "Who are these people?" Like, where are you getting this... who is, whose opinions are these? Right. Because they're so far off from mine.

[00:12:44] Exactly. And, um-

[00:12:46] Mike Relich: But they're informing these LLMs.

[00:12:48] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Exactly.

[00:12:48] Casey Golden: And like, I kind of... I don't know. I've kind of said, like, the whole internet is kind of fake, and it's like a paid sales pitch.

[00:12:55] Yeah. And that's inf- making the decisions for a lot of [00:13:00] business that is not fake. Right.

[00:13:02] Mike Relich: Yeah. Well, no,

[00:13:02] Casey Golden: Exactly.

[00:13:03] Ricardo Belmar: Right. Right.

[00:13:06] Casey Golden: And yeah, it worries me a bit.

[00:13:07] Mike Relich: Well, it worries me because I think that what happens is, you know, retail's kind of changed. Before, the brand and brand marketing w- was what defined trust in the brand.

[00:13:16] Right. And then it switched to the influencers, right? And everyone, they believe the influencers. Yeah. Now, it's kind of switching to the LLM, and people- Yeah ... look, and when you look at the number of direct URL, URL entries for commerce is going up. It is, yeah. And referrals go down because people are doing their research outside. So you know, what people really need to worry is about reputation management in these LLMs.

[00:13:38] Yeah. Yeah. And how do they show up? Because- Right ... you know, and what questions are being asked, and look, do you show up in the consideration set, you know? Mm-hmm. And if you don't, you gotta figure it out. And the problem is, I mean, everyone talks about GEO. Yeah, I could do, you know, AEO and GEO, but that's just part of the equation because what people say about when you Reddit is also

[00:13:57] Casey Golden: There's like a whole entire stack strategy .........that [00:14:00] has to happen- right .................and, you know- I've, you know, I don't know, I like playing devil's advocate. I like finding- Right ... I, I mean, I don't know. Go down the rabbit hole a few times, and all it takes is one person to say, "Hey, I'm trying to get dressed for this one thing on Reddit. Um, who makes the best ones of these?" Right.

[00:14:20] And then one person, like, "I'm looking at this brand." Right. And then everybody shits on it because they think it's too expensive, not because it doesn't fit good, not because it's- Right ... not great quality, not because it looks great, not because it isn't one of the best.

[00:14:33] Mike Relich: Right. It's

[00:14:33] Casey Golden: it's too expensive for the rest of the Reddit community.

[00:14:37] Mike Relich: Right. And so then what

[00:14:39] Casey Golden: And now that is not seen as, like, the best item or the best brand to buy that product from-

[00:14:46] Ricardo Belmar: Right ...

[00:14:46] Casey Golden: of opinions on price.

[00:14:48] Mike Relich: No, but when you- Right ...

[00:14:49] Ricardo Belmar: when

[00:14:49] Mike Relich: the consideration set is gonna say brand X, you know, high-priced. Yeah. And

[00:14:54] Ricardo Belmar: you're right. Right. And

[00:14:55] Casey Golden: Like

[00:14:55] Mike Relich: are- it is a bad

[00:14:57] Casey Golden: It's not a bad thing.

[00:14:58] Ricardo Belmar: Thing. Depends on what you're [00:15:00] buying. Yeah.

[00:15:00] Mike Relich: No, no,

[00:15:01] Casey Golden: I

[00:15:01] Mike Relich: mean- oh, I

[00:15:01] Casey Golden: the the high pri- You're like, "The high price is a bad

[00:15:03] Mike Relich: No, the high price-

[00:15:04] Ricardo Belmar: I

[00:15:05] Casey Golden: price-

[00:15:06] Ricardo Belmar: I don't know,

[00:15:06] Casey Golden: thing. I

[00:15:07] Mike Relich: it depends what you want, because price equals quality, right?

[00:15:10] Casey Golden: To a certain

[00:15:12] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah,

[00:15:12] Mike Relich: That's a certain debate Yeah, yeah, well, okay, we, we can debate cause, you

[00:15:14] Casey Golden: you know- Yeah ... anyway.

[00:15:15] Mike Relich: But, you know, the point is is you're be- you know, lLMs- You have to protect the brand ... you have to protect the brand- yeah ... and brand reputation is right. That's right. But, you know, back to the, to, to, to the board level thing.

[00:15:24] A Board Director's Checklist: Pilots, KPIs, and Real Costs

[00:15:24] Mike Relich: So I mean, what I look at is, okay, look, what business outcome are you trying to produce? Mm-hmm. Do we have the data? And can you actually pull this off? Yeah.

[00:15:34] And then, then s- thirdly, you know, are you doing an MVP? Because, you know, look, I'm not gonna... You know, you read the MIT study last year- Right ... ...that 95% of these- Yeah pilots fail. Mm-hmm.

[00:15:44] So look, I'm not gonna go and, you know, and approve, you know, the $5 million in capital for a, a, a rollout until somebody shows me basically that from a pilot, this is gonna work. Right. And it's actually an all-encompassing [00:16:00] pilot. So it's a pilot with, okay, let's define what the KPIs are.

[00:16:03] Mm-hmm.

[00:16:03] Did the pilot achieve them? What is the co- What's the TCO? What- Yeah ... you know, because the problem is the cost with some of these pilots, you know, vendors come in, we'll do it for free, you know, and, and the costs aren't representative of what the full rollout's gonna be, right?

[00:16:16] Yeah.

[00:16:16] Casey Golden: No. And the, pull on resources.

[00:16:19] Mike Relich: Exactly. Yeah. And the pull on resources.

[00:16:20] Ricardo Belmar: Exactly. Yeah.

[00:16:21] Mike Relich: So then, you know, I want proof there, and then I want proof on what's change management because I think ch- You know, I've been in IT for a long time. I mean, I'm an old guy, but- unfortunate. Relative. But the thing is, you can build the perfect system, but build and they will not come.

[00:16:38] Mm.

[00:16:38] So basically, are you gonna build a system? Are, are they really gonna use it? Right. And, then, you know, are they gonna override it, you know? So- Yeah ... you know, I wanna make sure, and then, you know, it can't be an IT project. It's gotta be a business project- Right ... with a business outcome. That's right. And if someone comes and tells me the IT owns the, owns the deal, I was like, "Okay-

[00:16:57] I'm, i'm not, i'm not approving it." It [00:17:00] has to be, 'cause- Yeah ... it has to be a business project with a business outcome- Right ... and well-defined. Right. And then, you know, once they can tell me that, yeah, they proved to me it's gonna be used. Yeah. And then the last thing is, show me what the real cost is gonna be and how you're gonna roll it out, and then what risk is there?

[00:17:15] Yeah. Do you have the proper security? Do you have proper governance? Because, you know, everyone, you know, knows, I forget, there was that one airline that were using a, they, they were using a bot.

[00:17:24] Yeah. and it just invented some, some customer accommodations, and it gave away millions of dollars of free tickets, you know?

[00:17:30] And so-

[00:17:32] Casey Golden: Wow ... you

[00:17:34] How to Pitch AI to Your Board for 2027

[00:17:34] Casey Golden: So what would... ri- advice would you recommend leaders today to start thinking about for 2027 on how they're going to communicate and educate their board along this journey of AI?

[00:17:47] Mike Relich: Yeah. What...

[00:17:48] Casey Golden: How should they be looking differently at board meetings or just with their board communication in general?

[00:17:53] Mike Relich: First of all, I think you need to assess your board and see how sophisticated they are. I mean, you know, if you're working for someone and there's s- you, you know, they're really [00:18:00] sophisticated, it's gonna be different than if you're working for a retail with a bunch of, you know, of ex-merchants who really don't know what AI is.

[00:18:06] And I think in that case, you have to actually educate them on what AI is, right? Right. I mean, generative AI, we generate something. You know, uh, machine learning, we predict something. Basically, deep learning, w- we're gonna represent some patterns that are, you know, impossible to figure out, right? Right.

[00:18:22] Agentic AI, we're gonna do something. I mean, you're gonna have to dumb it down, but kind of tell them, "This is how basically AI works."

[00:18:30] Yeah. And then I would come to them and basically take... You know, I mean, look, to me, not your AI... AI strategy is just a, it's just a, a business dec- it's a technology strategy to further the business.

[00:18:43] Right. So then I would say look at what your business objectives... Y- you know, what is the business strategy for next year, for 2027?

[00:18:50] Yeah.

[00:18:50] And then basically, okay, let's look at those projects you're trying to do, and then let's figure out, you know, is AI a solution Yeah. And then basically- Yeah.

[00:18:59] And then, [00:19:00] then figure out what you think how it could benefit. Now, if you come to me and say, "You know what? W- we're looking because interest rates are high, and ...we, we need lower working capital, so inventory reduction's a big thing."

[00:19:11] Yeah. Then you come to me and say, say, "Yeah, you know, we're gonna do this project, and we think we can lower inventory needs by 10%," okay, now you got my ears open.

[00:19:17] Right.

[00:19:18] Okay, now-

[00:19:18] Ricardo Belmar: yeah.

[00:19:18] Mike Relich: Okay. So tell me how you're gonna do this.

[00:19:20] Ricardo Belmar: Mm.

[00:19:21] Casey Golden: That's great.

[00:19:22] Ricardo Belmar: Yep. Makes sense. Makes sense.

[00:19:25] Well, Mike, thank you so much for joining us and kind of walking us through the board-level perspective on AI.

[00:19:31] Mike Relich: Well, thank you. It was really my pleasure. I appreciate it.

[00:19:33] Casey Golden: Enjoy the rest of the conference in this sunny California.

[00:19:37] Mike Relich: It's right near home, so I love it.

[00:19:39] Casey Golden: Oh. Thank you.

[00:19:40] Mike Relich: you.

[00:19:40] Casey Golden: this episode is a wrap.

[00:19:43] ​

[00:19:43] Show Close: Rate, Subscribe, and Stay Sharp

[00:19:48] Casey Golden: How much did you love this episode? Drop us a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Goodpods. And if you're watching us on YouTube, like, subscribe, and leave a comment [00:20:00] before you go. Hell, comment on my, my hair that is an absolute disaster today. Just leave us a comment, man. I'm Casey Golden

[00:20:07] Ricardo Belmar: Follow us on LinkedIn, Bluesky Threads, and Instagram, and subscribe to our Substack for highlights and bonus content. For transcripts and guest info, visit retailrazor.com. I'm Ricardo Belmar

[00:20:20] Casey Golden: Thanks for joining us on Blades to Greatness, part of the Retail Razor Podcast Network

[00:20:26] Ricardo Belmar: Until next time, stay sharp, lead boldly, stay human.

[00:20:29] This is the Retail Razor Blade to Greatness!

[00:20:32] ​