Retail Leadership Lessons with Bobby Johnson – People-First Culture

S1E5 Retail Transformers - Bobby Johnson

[00:00:00] Previews

[00:00:01] Bobby Johnson: ​And even in leadership, if, if CEOs think that you can AI leadership, you can't. It's, there's, it's people change and you're gonna have to look at, and I've done it in my career, had a 25-year-old say, well, this guy can be a leader one day.

[00:00:18] AI can't do that.

[00:00:19] I think once people understand you got 'em, they have you too.

[00:00:23] once your staff knows that you have them and they're, they become a part of that organization, that organization wins. It's when they lose contact with that staff, it's when we, you start seeing, starts at the edges, right?

[00:00:37] People say that a lot, so it starts at the edges, frazzling, but if you truly have each other, then it's gonna grow

[00:00:44] So then I just did it in one store. So that one store still thought I was foolish half the time. But the company thought I was a brilliant person always because when I rolled it out to them, it was right.

[00:00:56] Casey Golden: You wake up, you work your ass off, you manage fire drills, and [00:01:00]you shove food in your mouth and you go to sleep.

[00:01:10] Show Intro

[00:01:10] Ricardo Belmar: Welcome back to another episode of the Retail Razor Retail Transformers Podcast, where we bring you candid conversations with the people reshaping the world of commerce, the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, and sometimes the round pegs of the square holes, but most often the bold thinkers that see things differently and drive this industry forward.

[00:01:30] I'm Ricardo Belmar.

[00:01:31] Casey Golden: And I'm Casey Golden. Welcome Retail Razor Fans to the show where we spotlight the leaders, the innovators, and the disruptors reshaping the future of retail.

[00:01:41] Ricardo Belmar: If you're passionate about innovation, leadership, and the future of commerce, Retail Transformers is the podcast for you.

[00:01:47] Casey Golden: Today, we're diving into a story that spans decades of retail leadership and innovation. Our guest, Bobby Johnson, built his career at BrandsMart, where he rose from an appliance [00:02:00] manager on the shop floor to chief operating officer and chief stores and supply chain officer. Helping shape one of the nation's most robust retail operations.

[00:02:11] In fact, he took the company's profitability from under 10 million to over 40 million annually with a sales volume of over a billion, and now he's taking that experience into a whole new space, reimagining the laundry business with Spinjoy, a wash and fold service. In partnership with Walmart.

[00:02:34] Ricardo Belmar: What makes Bobby's journey so compelling, unique, and, and frankly, disruptive is not just the scale of what he's accomplished, but the philosophy behind it. He is a leader who believes it's never about the business, it's about the people. Whether that's mentoring future leaders, listening directly to frontline employees, or designing services that put convenience and trust first. I really can't wait to explore how those values shaped [00:03:00] his career at BrandsMart and how that's driving his vision at Spinjoy, there's so much experience for him to share for others to learn from.

[00:03:06] Casey Golden: But before we dive in, a quick ask for all of you listening and watching. If you're enjoying the show, hit us with a five star rating and drop us a short review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Goodpods, or wherever you're listening.

[00:03:22] Ricardo Belmar: And of course, don't forget to like and subscribe on our YouTube channel, so you never miss an episode there. And if you haven't already, take a few minutes and check out the other shows in the Retail Razor Podcast Network, the Retail Razor Show, Blade to Greatness and Data Blades. You'll find them all on your favorite podcast app or on our YouTube channel.

[00:03:40] If you like this show, you'll love those too. It's time well spent. Trust us on that.

[00:03:44] Casey Golden: With that said, let's jump into our conversation with our latest retail transformer, Bobby Johnson.

[00:03:51] Ricardo Belmar: Oh, you said that just so I wouldn't get a chance to say my favorite phrase.

[00:03:54] Casey Golden: Nope, nope, nope. Don't say it. You can't say it. Intros over, [00:04:00]moving on the interview. It's too late.

[00:04:03] Ricardo Belmar: All right, you got me this time. Next episode, maybe next episode.

[00:04:06]

[00:04:06] Meet Retail Transformer - Bobby Johnson

[00:04:13] Ricardo Belmar: Bobby, welcome to the Retail Transformers podcast. It is so exciting when we have someone on the show with such a rich storied retail career that's, you know, been all the way from the front lines in stores all the way to this C-suite or so excited to dig into your journey, leadership philosophy, and all the amazing experiences that you've had in retail.

[00:04:31] Bobby Johnson: Well, thanks for having me. It's exciting. I love to talk about retail. It's been my life!

[00:04:36] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:38] Casey Golden: I mean, Bobby I'm thrilled to have you here. You've seen retail evolve from traditional big box to innovative service models, from building BrandsMart into a powerhouse, to now re-imagining everyday services with Spinjoy, and you've always kept people at the center of it. So let's just jump right in.

[00:04:59] Bobby Johnson: Let's do it.

[00:04:59] Casey Golden: [00:05:00] So you spent over 30 years at BrandsMart, and I think this is incredible, but you went from Appliance Manager to COO.

[00:05:10] Bobby Johnson: Yes, ma'am.

[00:05:10] Casey Golden: What kept you motivated to stay and grow with one company for so long in such a tough industry?

[00:05:19] Bobby Johnson: It was a very dynamic industry. It was huge volume. So lots of people and I thought we were and , they are different than the competition. And then I love the people that I was with.

[00:05:31] Then as we worked together along and longer, you really have a love for each other and that's what kept me there

[00:05:38] Ricardo Belmar: Wow.

[00:05:38] Bobby Johnson: tho those people actually.

[00:05:40] Casey Golden: It is a very rare career path these days, but I think something companies should chase again.

[00:05:46] Bobby Johnson: I, I do, too!

[00:05:47] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's fascinating to me because, so often hear people talk about retail is such an unforgiving kind of a brutal industry to be in. You've got long hours, there's high [00:06:00] turnover. Things are constantly changing. Especially now, but maybe not as rapidly in the technology side before, but certainly today. But if you look back, what were some of the biggest lessons you learned about, resilience, adaptability, during all that time at BrandsMart and what made that the place that you wanted to, you know, build

[00:06:18] Bobby Johnson: I dunno. It was just, that was the place, that was the place that I grew up, so it ended up being that place. But I think we're, a lot of people still miss it. It is a leadership thing and it's a partnership thing. So once you create a partnership with that, your team, then that's what it really is about.

[00:06:37] So, and that's why you read so much about AI in today's world or whatever. That can't be. They miss the people part of that.

[00:06:46] So once your staff knows that you have them and they're, they become a part of that organization, that organization wins. It's when they lose contact with that staff, it's when we, you start seeing, starts at the edges, [00:07:00] right?

[00:07:00] People say that a lot, so it starts at the edges, frazzling,

[00:07:04] But if you truly have each other, then it's gonna grow and it's just no different than that. I, when I'm coaching, I use actually teams like little league or football or whatever. It's no different. You see that in professional sports, if they don't have each other, if those are the difference between the good teams and the bad teams, same thing.

[00:07:25] And this is just leadership. So I just fell in love with leadership and then I was able to, luckily I worked for some good people that allowed me to grow.

[00:07:33] All the things to practice. So I was able to stay there for a long, long time and grow and grow a great company.

[00:07:39] Challenges and Resilience in Retail

[00:07:39] Ricardo Belmar: What were some of the more, most challenging things you came across over, over all those decades at BrandsMart?

[00:07:44] Bobby Johnson: Well, the, the recession in

[00:07:46] oh six seven, right?

[00:07:49] We went through that and that was the first time we weren't making money. Weren't losing money, but luckily we had owners that kept the money in the company, so we we're able to stay around and [00:08:00] then certainly COVID, which seems like yesterday when I was staying up all night, trying to keep the stores open, the employees safe, sound, and good place to work too, and still try to service the community.

[00:08:12] 'cause we sell major appliances, so we wanna make sure that they still were able, if the refrigerator broke, what were they gonna do? Trying to make sure we still could deliver that those goods when it was possible.

[00:08:23] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Yeah. You've mentioned multiple times how it's really always comes down to the people. So in a way it's not really necessarily just about the business itself, it's always about the people and the team and who's involved. I, is there a particular moment, where, that philosophy, that approach, to really focusing on the people, kind of change the outcome for something that team or the company was involved in.

[00:08:45] And maybe it was one of those moments, like with COVID or in the recession

[00:08:48] Bobby Johnson: I think it was both of those moments. So my average tenure of, of people, of my direct reports was 25 plus years. And I didn't lose them during those times either. We stayed in [00:09:00] contact, they went over to be up beyond and being in southeast Florida, we went through hurricanes, had a gentleman that was at work after a hurricane, and it blew the, true story, it blew the, the air conditioner off the top of his condo

[00:09:15] Ricardo Belmar: Hmm.

[00:09:16] Bobby Johnson: into his car, and he drove this motorcycle that he had to work.

[00:09:19] Ricardo Belmar: Wow.

[00:09:20] Bobby Johnson: I said, Errol, what are you doing here? Why are you driving your car? He, and he told me, and I, I said, Errol, I got you. Go on. Because when it blew off his roof, it also left a hole on the roof.

[00:09:34] So, but those people are really what made it matter. And the reason I stayed there for that length of time was

[00:09:42] Ricardo Belmar: yeah. That, that, that's amazing to have people with such an average, a long, average tenure in your team. I mean, how, how, how do you do that?

[00:09:50] Bobby Johnson: I think they have to. I think I've done a lot of studying this because it interests me. I think your employees [00:10:00] need to know that you have them. So in my, in my world, they knew, understood that I ran a company. So the company was first, but I put them second always before myself. So like, if someone called me and said, listen, I gotta go because whatever, I would say, okay, I got you. And I would go, no matter what I was doing, wasn't good, best sometimes for my relationships, but it was, it was good for that. And, I think once people understand you got 'em, they have you too.

[00:10:29] They're still people business, right? So that's important.

[00:10:33] Casey Golden: You know, it is like a, the difference between you know, having a partnership, almost feeling like everybody's invested into the company and knowing that there is that reci, reciprocity, I guess you could say we're in a lot of organizations, like there just isn't. You know, you're just, you feel replaceable all the time, and they flex on making you feel replaceable.

[00:10:58] Mentorship and Leadership Development

[00:10:58] Casey Golden: It sounds like mentorship has [00:11:00] been central to your leadership style that you personally mentor two to three people a year which I think is phenomenal. What did those relationships teach you about developing the next generation of leaders?

[00:11:13] Bobby Johnson: Well, even when, and you're correct, what I did, but even like, I got a call today from somebody that I mentored early and he didn't stay. He worked for us for about four or five years. He went through college and, but he, we still keep in touch to this day. And that in case, I don't know if I told you this, but the people that I mentored like that, they call me Bubba. Now. My name's Bobby and I dunno why they called me Bubba, but they all did do and so when I answered the phone today. And he said, what's up Bubba? So I, who it was, and I've never been called Bubba till they came up with it. But I enjoyed it because you take these young old, it doesn't matter who they are, but you try to get them to the next level. And once they understand that too, they're not [00:12:00] leaving. And many of the people that I mentor, mentored are still there. And I still get calls or and a text yesterday, again from somebody else asking, just asking me how I was doing. And then someone today won't have lunch. Those relationships never end. If you've truly mentored them well and you put them over your head. Right, and it doesn't have to be even work stuff. It could be anything else happening in their life. And I'm just honest and straightforward, that's what they appreciate.

[00:12:27] Ricardo Belmar: Well, you've led basically from both front lines and stores as all the way to boardrooms. So how do these, this kind of unfiltered conversations, I, I assume you, you must have been part of, in both of those environments really for, was for cashiers or warehouse staff, and how does that kind of shape the decisions you make as a COO?

[00:12:49] Bobby Johnson: Well, it is a trial and error. If, and you gotta just be honest with yourself, right? So there's many things. I work all the time and it's just my nature and it's not, I'm not gonna change now. [00:13:00] So I would do lots of things on the weekends, take up notes, do all, and I would make, I used to make changes in a store, companywide on a Monday, and then half the time, literally I was wrong.

[00:13:13] Ricardo Belmar: Hmm.

[00:13:16] Casey Golden: But you had conviction, which I think is like 80%, 90% of it.

[00:13:20] Ricardo Belmar: Right.

[00:13:22] Bobby Johnson: But I did after about maybe a year of that, 'cause I'm not a quick learner, I said, okay, this is silly. So then I just did it in one store.

[00:13:35] So that one store still thought I was foolish half the time. But the company thought I was a brilliant person always because when I rolled it out to them, it was right. But you have to, you have to take that leap of faith with them and you, and I think, I'm a changeling, I think that's important in leadership. Someone has to put some guide guides on me. And I had that as a, my CEO was that way. He said, no, Bobby, we're not doing that [00:14:00] today. So most of the time he let me go. So, and then,. But you have to because if not, and you don't change, the world's changing. So it's gonna pass you, so you have to do that, whether it be retail or any other business you're in..

[00:14:14] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, culture itself in any company, right, is really tricky to scale. And, and, and develop that way. I mean, that, that's a great example of that, right? When you. Went from trying to do a companywide, just let's do it at one store and see how it goes. But when you're overseeing hundreds of stores like that and distribution centers and everything else, how do you keep culture consistent without making it feel almost cookie cutter to everybody else?

[00:14:38] Bobby Johnson: So one of the things that bothered me a lot. So, we were in South Florida only doing tremendous amounts of business here, and then we went, we took our organization to Atlanta and they're still in Atlanta and in Georgia. So one of the things I did is half the people that went there. I paid to relocate there. [00:15:00] So I was able to keep our culture by having half and picking, and I personally interviewed every person that went to that store.

[00:15:07] So I wanted to make sure that they were the, that I felt they were the right fit with just being hospitable, having our culture knew what we were about, and then transplanted it there, and it worked.

[00:15:18] It still took a while to get it through the company, doing it that way. But it did work. And, but it was, it was hard.

[00:15:25] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, that's, that sounds like a challenge for sure.

[00:15:27] Bobby Johnson: Yeah. Because the only other way is process and procedure, but then it, then it feels cookie cutter, what you

[00:15:33] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Right,

[00:15:34] Bobby Johnson: Right,

[00:15:35] All written like other change would.

[00:15:37] That's the only other way that I know.

[00:15:39] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Well, I guess, but by, by bringing so many people to the new location with you, does that make it easier for all the new folks who are starting to really understand what the company culture is?

[00:15:50] Bobby Johnson: it did. It did.

[00:15:52] And a lot of those people still work there. Some of 'em I ended up bringing back to Florida 'cause they didn't like Georgia. So I said [00:16:00] it was my deal. It was my deal going in. So I said, okay, if you gimme a year there. It was really in management. I'll bring you back here when I have it open. And that was a trust factor. So, and I remember even my CEO said, well, why are you bringing him back doing great there? I said, because I told him I would

[00:16:17] Casey Golden: He is only doing great there because I promised you could come back.

[00:16:21] otherwise he would be gone

[00:16:25] Bobby Johnson: and that was the conversation. I said, if you do great here, I will do what I'm saying I'll do.

[00:16:31] And I did.

[00:16:32] Casey Golden: Yeah. I think that's great.

[00:16:35] When I first saw, like, looked you up on LinkedIn, I was just like very impressed. I mean, I haven't, there's not very many people I've met that have been at a company for so many years. And I just think that there's so many learnings there when you can literally go through the entire, like, pyramid to make it to the top from, you know, being an operator and like [00:17:00] starting at the bottom. I think it just shows like great grit so many skills because you kind of get to have your hand in all the cookie jars over a long period of time. And roll out strategies. You know, I think it's one of the biggest disappointments as so many people today switch jobs as they've, like, put something into play, but nobody's there to see it through execution because it's gonna take three years to roll out and nobody's even staying for five. Right. And it took us two years just to put the strategy in place, maybe implement software. And I'm like, nobody's there through the whole thing.

[00:17:39] And I think it just kind of goes to having that continuity of knowledge and operation and vision and strategy. I think it was just, I was just like very excited to, to meet you. One. And then I was like, what in the heck is Spinjoy because it has to be something pretty freaking fantastic to get you to move like to anybody.

[00:17:58] It was like city. I'm like, you're [00:18:00] sitting pretty what are you doing. And so, and now I'm completely obsessed with the business and so intrigued. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I was talking about this with somebody on a flight. I've been talking about it with every single person I know. It's a laundry service inside of Walmart, I it's brilliant.

[00:18:21] The most, and it's obviously like the most obvious next step is to like, Hey, let's go, you know, go into the startup world, right? But you're doing it in a very big way. I think you're skipping like, I don't know, 80% of the startup world. So congratulations.

[00:18:39] Bobby Johnson: at least, I think

[00:18:41] Ricardo Belmar: That's a good thing.

[00:18:42] Transition to Spinjoy: A New Venture

[00:18:42] Casey Golden: What drew you to this business? What is the story here?

[00:18:46] Bobby Johnson: so a friend of mine that I'd worked with for a long time. Invested in this company. He came and asked me, he says, you're the perfect for this fit. And then I started looking into it and, and it was [00:19:00] exciting and I'd had it was time for me to change careers 'cause BrandsMart had sold to a corporate company.

[00:19:06] Casey Golden: Yeah.

[00:19:07] Bobby Johnson: And still great people, but it was time for me to make it a switch. So I said, okay, this is gonna be perfect. And it interested me, and I, I've always had a love of studying the way Walmart did things as they're Walmart. this is gonna be very big. And then as I started studying it more and more, and even daily. It's gonna be huge because it's just the perfect timing. We're gonna offer to everyone a good priced wash and fold service that's convenient for everyone to get to when it gets rolled out. So, and it's gonna be ran correctly. I'm gonna do it and it will be ran with a customer first mindset. So I think if you, once you do that, you put all the, what I've learned in my career back into a business. I think it's gonna, and it hits everyone [00:20:00] perfect, at perfect timing because like this shirt and most of our clothes now, instead of being shirt tie jacket, they're all dry cleaned. They're a lot of, that's wash and fold

[00:20:10] And with all the kids and stuff.

[00:20:11] And I have a son that plays, he's 16 now, but he used to play little league and he still plays baseball, football, all of his stuff. It just is, it'll give people, and this is the big deal to this, once everyone understands they get three or four hours of a week doing their laundry, it'll give 'em that three or four hours of time back.

[00:20:34] So once that, and it's gonna be at a very close price to what if they count their time at, at $10 an hour, they're gonna be saving money, having someone else do it.

[00:20:43] And, uh,

[00:20:43] Casey Golden: that's really important. You know, and they don't make washing machines the way that they used to, right. Um,

[00:20:49] Ricardo Belmar: too. Yeah,

[00:20:51] Casey Golden: I think. I think I grew up in what, two households? You know, between it, I don't think anybody ever said the washing machine was broken. [00:21:00] And now, like I hear it all the time when I'm on the phone with friends that like the washing machine broke.

[00:21:06] And I'm like, you know, I've never heard my grandmother say that. I never heard my mother say that. Were they ugly? Yeah. But I don't think they broke!.

[00:21:15] Ricardo Belmar: No, they just kept on going forever. Yeah.

[00:21:18] Bobby Johnson: Yes, that's true. Same thing with a lot of appliances. Right?

[00:21:21] Part of it was, and I, and you know, I came from that business, so part of it was just the way they were manufactured. They're manufactured today differently and they were manufactured with real big motors. It took a lot of energy, but like, it's like driving, I, and I use this analogy, it's like driving like an old car, right? That had this big engine, but it never had to rev up, it never had to work hard.

[00:21:43] Everything is having to work real hard like a little car they don't last as long as,

[00:21:47] Ricardo Belmar: they wear out.

[00:21:48] Bobby Johnson: But they're more energy efficient, but have to replace them every five years. So.

[00:21:53] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:21:54] Casey Golden: So I mean, I just see huge opportunities and like most people see laundromats as utility [00:22:00] or and really focused in like cosmopolitan areas. Like having a washer and dryer at home is a luxury like. It's definite flex in New York.

[00:22:11] And you don't think about the experience where I think about the experience the whole time I'm sitting there. Um, but I'm not willing to do anything about it. I'm like, I already have a full plate. I'm not fixing this. But for a lot of, a lot across America where like it's not a general occurrence to have like all these laundromats on all these corners.

[00:22:32] Reimagining Wash and Fold Services

[00:22:32] Casey Golden: It's like a whole new opportunity for an entirely underserved undertapped market. How are you re-imagining like wash and fold to feel more like a retail environment that maybe people wanna be in or come back to? I mean, I'm sure you're taking a lot of retail into the services

[00:22:51] Bobby Johnson: so I, I can't help but do that because that's who I came from, right.

[00:22:55] So, and that really was why they were very excited to have me for that. [00:23:00] And I think because retail has evolved and had all the efficiency of that, it puts a customer mind first mindset, first of all, and then having it in a Walmart.

[00:23:12] And Walmarts are close to real close to 80% of America. So it's just convenient. And then if go into Walmart anyway, to do your grocery shopping and all that. One of the things that, that we're gonna do and are doing is it's a 90 day, 90 day. I said that earlier today, 90 days you can get your laundry back. 90

[00:23:32] Casey Golden: I go buy more

[00:23:37] Ricardo Belmar: go replace it all.

[00:23:39] Bobby Johnson: Really isn't efficient, but um. 90 minutes, we can we'll get it back to you. So, rather than sitting at a laundromat, you can get a bunch of other stuff done at that same time, or we're gonna be able to, we're gonna integrate with Walmart Plus and get it delivered back to you.

[00:23:56] So it's just, we're trying to hit all, [00:24:00] whatever, what's good for everyone. It's hard to do. We'll offer, curbside delivery, right? So all that stuff that'll truly, when I say three, four hours a week, truly give that three or four hours a week back and do a better, do a better service than you could do at home.

[00:24:15] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah,

[00:24:15] Casey Golden: Yeah, for, I mean, 90 minutes for a lot of, much of America is starting your errands and finishing your errands.

[00:24:23] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah,

[00:24:24] Casey Golden: Right. 'cause I mean, it's kind of a little bit more than that actually. Being in New York, I never run errands because everything is within point A to point B. My errands are in between where I go, I don't, I don't spend time going and running errands.

[00:24:40] But it's, it's a very New York thing. Very cosmopolitan thing. Like I don't run errands. But for everyone else, like 90 minutes on any given day, somebody's running errands like for two hours. Easy.

[00:24:53] Bobby Johnson: went by a school earlier today, and they were sitting in line [00:25:00] to pick up their children an hour and a half, which is 90 minutes before that school ever even let out. They could,

[00:25:06] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, I remember those days.

[00:25:08] Bobby Johnson: they could drop off their laundry, go pick up their kids and go pick it up, and they're all done all in that same timeframe.

[00:25:14] So

[00:25:14] Ricardo Belmar: Same trip.

[00:25:15] Bobby Johnson: That's where it's gonna, that's where once people understand that, it's really gonna become viral and, and be NA National very quickly.

[00:25:24] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Well, I guess from that perspective the whole location strategy is key, right?

[00:25:29] Location Strategy and Demographics

[00:25:29] Ricardo Belmar: So I like attaching yourself to Walmart is such a great way to be where you expect people to be and where they need to be or have other things to do. So in, in that sense, I mean, do you look at location?

[00:25:42] Do you think about location strategy in terms of just traffic counts and rent? Are you designing, you know. Just thinking in terms of where is life happening for this target customer. You know, your example just now of the parents going to in line at school to wait for the kids to come out and then go pick up the laundry.

[00:25:59] Bobby Johnson: So in [00:26:00] the, in 26, we're gonna have five stores that we have picked, different stores. They gave us 150, 200 to choose from, but we picked different stores for different demo, different demographic. Like we have one that's in a college town, one that's in a very big rental community. And that way we can learn.

[00:26:18] It's a learn and see, right? So we will learn what the differences in those. Customer habits. And then that way when we go to 150 and then 500 stores in the next two to three years, that we know where to put 'em and how to interact with that customer. 'cause you can't, you can't guess anymore. You're gonna have to go out and say, well, this works. And it doesn't matter where, rural America's in Douglasville, Georgia, or some little town in Oregon is still rural America. So then you do that. College town's still a college

[00:26:53] So that, that's the reason we're doing what we're doing. So it is been a lot of thought, actually. We've [00:27:00] overthought it.

[00:27:00] So, like a lot of things people do right.

[00:27:03] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:27:05] Casey Golden: Yeah,

[00:27:05] I really think it's, you know, if somebody from, that industry were to build it versus somebody from like the retail industry building it, it's, I think it'd be two very different end results. So I'm very excited to, uh, I'm to watch you build this.

[00:27:19] Trust and Transparency in Leadership

[00:27:19] Casey Golden: Trust and transparency or are big themes in your leadership. How does the app-based like real time tracking model at Spinjoy reflect some of those values.

[00:27:33] Bobby Johnson: Well, you being at base, you sort of, you sort of lose that human touch.

[00:27:38] Casey Golden: Yeah.

[00:27:38] Bobby Johnson: But I don't plan on losing the human touch 'cause it's still gonna require me getting up from here and going to the stores and or having conversations like this. I have many podcasts or not. I don't have many podcasts at all. I have many Zoom calls during the course of a day. Some people I've never met.

[00:27:57] But the time you meet them, you feel like [00:28:00] the two of you, I feel like I would know you for a long, long time.

[00:28:02] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:03] Bobby Johnson: So I think this technology allows us to get a lot of that across and that's what my plan is with that, with local leadership in that and still getting our core, our core values through.

[00:28:17] And I think that's gonna be easier because of technology in this case.

[00:28:21] Casey Golden: Right.

[00:28:22] Personal Costs of Leadership

[00:28:22] Casey Golden: Everyone talks about the wins but very few talk about the toll. What did it cost you personally to, to lead at the scale that you have? And how do you look at balancing it now?

[00:28:35] Bobby Johnson: Well, they, you didn't tell me there would be tough questions,

[00:28:38] Casey Golden: I know, surprise, surprise.

[00:28:41] Ricardo Belmar: That's what, that's what keeps it interesting.

[00:28:43] Casey Golden: You know, somebody says oh, you know, you wanna simplify your leadership, and I'm like, whatever. You wake up, you work your ass off, you manage fire drills, and you shove food in your mouth and you go to sleep. And we get the same thing every day.

[00:28:55] Ricardo Belmar: Now, repeat

[00:28:56] Casey Golden: What, you do it differently?.

[00:28:58] Bobby Johnson: So [00:29:00] with. Without getting emotional because that, when you think about it, it could become that way. It cost me two marriages.

[00:29:09] Ricardo Belmar: Hmm.

[00:29:10] Bobby Johnson: I was more married to my people in work than I were, was to my wives. And I told my, and I still love her dearly, but I told my, as a friend, but, my last wife when we weren't getting along and during the divorce process and I told her this, I said, I'm not, I've been a good husband, evidently. This is my second time I failed, but I'm a great father and, and a great ex-husband. So, so we're still learning that space. So, but that was some of the tolls that, that working that much and putting that in front. And I didn't, I think I could have been. Better in some other ways too. But you have to adapt to that too.

[00:29:49] So there's a way to with my son, I've made, I've some certain transitions from my professional career and still [00:30:00] kept him first.

[00:30:00] So you still, there's possibilities to do both. I just wasn't good at both. But maybe next time.

[00:30:07] Casey Golden: like, I like what you said.

[00:30:09] I'm,

[00:30:10] Ricardo Belmar: ways it's always a learning experience. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:13] Casey Golden: um, I think I'm going on 23 years being single.

[00:30:22] Ricardo Belmar: That's a different conversation.

[00:30:25] Casey Golden: I'm, I'm busy working. Sorry. know. I like how I'm gonna spend the next two hours. I don't know if I'm gonna like spending two hours with you, so I'm just gonna keep working.

[00:30:37] Ricardo Belmar: That's a

[00:30:37] Casey Golden: So yeah. Anybody who figures out that balance on how to do it all

[00:30:43] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:30:44] That's a major win. That's a major win. Yeah, for sure, for sure.

[00:30:48] Mentoring the Next Generation of Leaders

[00:30:49] Ricardo Belmar: So let me ask you maybe shift a little bit here throughout all the years that you've led different organizations, I mean, you've also had other leaders that you've brought from whatever [00:31:00] position that they were in up into leadership roles. As you look back into on all the different people that you've worked with, have you men mentored in those capacities versus what you see happening in the world, in the industry going forward? What do you see that you think maybe everyone's just getting completely wrong about how you develop that next generation of leaders?

[00:31:21] Bobby Johnson: I think if you don't spend the personal time. And I just commented on Zoom being great, but if you don't, if you don't get up and walk in their shoes to know what their issues are to help them with those issues, A, they're not gonna stay with you. So you're gonna have more turnover. B, they're not gonna see the way you leads, so you're not gonna create great leadership. You can't there, nothing wrong with Harvard degree graduates. But, and they come out very book smart and they know how to look at analytics and all that, but they, no one's taught them how to talk and lead to people, and they're gonna have to right people so that, and hopefully you've hired the right [00:32:00]candidate, but you have to get with them to show them how to, to do that job.

[00:32:05] And there's no other, there's not a shortcut to that. It's just a time thing. And they don't understand it either. These 25, 30 year olds, right? When you tell them, listen, it's not an age thing, it's an experience thing, and you have to walk down that path. You have to fail, get up and go forward. But without that you're not gonna have that experience.

[00:32:25] So, that's, I hope that made sense, but.

[00:32:29] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. We hear so often people talk about learning from failures, right? As, as much as, and oftentimes more than what you learn from the wins and the successes. And I, I think that's an example of that. When you look at someone who is new to an industry or new, new to a career, just entering the job market, then there's always lots of energy, right?

[00:32:50] They want to go and do everything. You're right to your point, right? There's, you kind of have to build the experience to leverage the experience to know how to deal with things, and that's what's [00:33:00] gonna . Likely determine, you know, whether it's gonna be a given activity, a success, or a failure, and what you're gonna learn from it.

[00:33:06] Bobby Johnson: And one of the things that I've seen change over the last 30 years of leading people. Right. Is there, the people, right? So the way they're brought up and they're educated and, and you hear this a lot when you talked about Gen Z, gen y, gen 500, whatever. And today when you're talking to someone that will use 30 years old. You. If you take the time to explain what you're doing, you get a much better finished product. Whereas in 30 years ago, you could just say, okay, do this and this is how I wanna done it. It was done.

[00:33:42] and respect, right? But if you don't take that time, they're gonna get, they go over here and do something. But if you take that time, and then once they fill apart, it's the same thing.

[00:33:53] Ricardo Belmar: Hmm.

[00:33:53] Bobby Johnson: It gets done. So, your leadership style through the years does have to change

[00:33:58] to your audience, right?

[00:33:59] Ricardo Belmar: [00:34:00] Right, right, so if you, if you look, forward. Let's look forward for, for a minute. How you lead people kinda has to change, has to adapt.

[00:34:07] The Future of Retail and AI

[00:34:07] Ricardo Belmar: But if you look forward maybe to the next three, five years in retail, what are the things that excites you the most about what's to come and maybe one of the things that maybe scares you the most about what's going to come.

[00:34:18] Bobby Johnson: The excitement is still people. And I think it's, it's incumbent upon the retail industry, the Walmarts of the world and all, everyone in there to make that job exciting. Now what scares me is, is a lot more AI scares me, and I'm an AI nut. I use it four different programs every

[00:34:36] day, but. I don't think he can replace the, the person interaction.

[00:34:41] I think a robot can tell you where to get your jeans, but it's not gonna tell you feel these, they feel soft that I like this or Right. So, and I think a lot of people that do shop that do go out, want a person there to help them, and to [00:35:00] find out creative new ways of doing things where AI is gonna look. Through all the search engines say, well this is what search engines say it's gonna do. So that does scare me something.

[00:35:09] And even in leadership, if, if CEOs think that you can AI leadership, you can't. It's, there's, it's people change and you're gonna have to look at, and I've done it in my career, had a 25-year-old say, well, this guy can be a leader one day.

[00:35:26] AI can't do that.

[00:35:27] Ricardo Belmar: Mm.

[00:35:28] Bobby Johnson: It is gonna look, whatever it is at face value, that's the way it is. It's not gonna,

[00:35:33] it's gonna tell you you have a 77% chance of them becoming a leader, not

[00:35:38] for sure. Right?

[00:35:39] So that, it does scare me that if, if we go down that route and forget about people.

[00:35:44] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Yeah. Does the does that change the way you look at how you define success today versus how you defined it, you know, when you first started your career versus how you think we're gonna define it five years from now when we're all surrounded by AI, I,

[00:35:59] Bobby Johnson: I don't [00:36:00] know. I don't know. I think there's a fork on the road that could happen either way. Either the, and I think what people do is they, they'll try and fail. I think you're gonna go down the AI road maybe too much and then come back. And if you see, we talked about I had a conversation recently about home office. Home office is good. But it's not the end all. So you'll see people have to go back to work 'cause they're gonna get, they're gonna work. Right. And there's a culture that happens when people are together eating lunch together, doing stuff. So it depends on that job as well. But you saw COVID send everyone out and but now you'll see people bringing on back and back.

[00:36:40] But that's, it's just, it's gonna. Cycle. And I think that same thing's gonna happen with the AI experience going in and out.

[00:36:47] The Pendulum of Technology Adoption

[00:36:47] Casey Golden: Yeah, I feel like we're gonna have a lot of whiplash just from like these like pendulum swings. I don't think it's just that technology is on a pendulum. I think businesses, even [00:37:00] users, like everybody's using AI to getting a robot that's doing dishes now apparently, that we can get to the other side where they're like, I don't even want phone anymore.

[00:37:12] I'm offline. I'm canceled everything. And there's like this whole movement of going dark

[00:37:18] and It's just like we have like all these pendulums and like just too much tech. Not enough. I don't wanna touch any of it. I wanna be a part of everything. I wanna build it like I'm done. I'm burnout. So there's like this digital burnout that's happening.

[00:37:33] And it's gonna be very interesting as on all the people on who's building,

[00:37:37] Bobby Johnson: Yeah.

[00:37:38] I I think so too. And it's a, it is a guess. 'cause you don't know it's gonna happen. I mean, we, we've all seen it happen, so what I'm telling you, it is gonna happen. You just don't know when it's gonna happen.

[00:37:50] Right. And that's the guess part. How long is it gonna take for everyone to get back and forth?

[00:37:55] I can see, or you can read and you can read about all these offices opening back up and getting [00:38:00] people back into, into an office where the culture's done. We, we know that's was a time thing, so 20 to 25, so it took five years for all that to do, but it was still a guesswork of when, so same thing with this, it's a win and it's never all a hundred percent.

[00:38:18] It's always gonna be some of that. Right.

[00:38:20] Ricardo Belmar: Right.

[00:38:21] Bobby Johnson: See some of it at that, like I bought this furniture, I bought furniture patio for I, I do everything, a lot of stuff online. I bought patio furniture online. Online. It looked great

[00:38:34] Because you don't see size online. When I got it,

[00:38:38] Casey Golden: For Barbies.

[00:38:39] Bobby Johnson: it was golf. It was golf furniture. My son.

[00:38:54] Casey Golden: That's funny. No, I bought a, a jar of peanut butter this big, [00:39:00] and I mean, enough peanut butter to last me five years 'cause I barely eat peanut butter. And then I bought a conditioner that was this big, which I go through a big bottle every month

[00:39:11] and I'm just like, I'm a professional and I screwed this.

[00:39:15] Ricardo Belmar: yeah. Yeah. That's one of those things. Size is so relative and,

[00:39:19] Casey Golden: like, there's no hope for the consumer. Like I'm screwing this up.

[00:39:25] Ricardo Belmar: yeah. It's like you, there's only so much you can get from, you go through descriptions. Like it says it's how many ounces?

[00:39:31] Wait, is that the small one or the big one? I don't, I

[00:39:32] don't know.

[00:39:33] Casey Golden: with dresses too, like lots of girls. Over the last, like maybe five years ago, we all bought dresses for dolls. Yeah. Like it was a thing.

[00:39:45] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:39:46] Casey Golden: Oops.

[00:39:48] Final Thoughts and Contact Information

[00:39:48] Casey Golden: Bobby, this has been such a great conversation. I absolutely adore you, and I could keep talking forever. I think you're just an absolute gem for the industry and I'm really excited about this new business.

[00:40:02] I'm definitely gonna be watching and just thank you so much for sharing your journey and your leadership insights with us today. I think I think you're gonna have, we're gonna have some new fan favorites here.

[00:40:12] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, no, no doubt about it. No doubt about it.

[00:40:15] Bobby Johnson: I enjoyed it. Obviously, I enjoyed it, my face is hurt

[00:40:17] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Well, we, well, we appreciate that for sure. So really quick before we go, if any listeners wanna either follow what you're doing at Spinjoy what's the best way for them to reach out.

[00:40:29] Bobby Johnson: So we have Spinjoy.com, which is still, it's being developed. My email is bJohnson@spinjoy.com if you wanna reach out. So it's pretty simple and we'll be in an area near you and we will, I plan on watching through social in that space. I think it's way doing so just look for us and we'll be there.

[00:40:50] Ricardo Belmar: All right. Fantastic.

[00:40:51] Casey Golden: All right, guys. This episode is a wrap.

[00:40:54] Bobby Johnson: Thank you so.much. Thanks again, I appreciate it

[00:40:56] Ricardo Belmar: Thank you.

[00:40:57] Show Close

[00:41:04] Casey Golden: If you enjoyed today's episode, please give us a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Goodpods. And don't forget to hit subscribe on your favorite podcast app or on YouTube so you never miss an episode.

[00:41:19] I'm Casey Golden.

[00:41:20] Ricardo Belmar: We'd love to hear from you. Follow us and share your feedback at Retail Razor on LinkedIn, Bluesky, Threads, and Instagram. You can also subscribe to our Substack newsletter for highlights from every episode, and visit retailrazor dot com for transcripts and more details about our guests.

[00:41:36] Retail Transformers is part of the Retail Razor Podcast Network.

[00:41:40] I'm Ricardo Belmar.

[00:41:41] Casey Golden: Thanks for joining us.

[00:41:43] Ricardo Belmar: Until next time, Stay Sharp, Be Bold, and Transform Retail.

[00:41:46] This is The Retail Razor Retail Transformers.