S3E17 – #NRFforBeginners with Andrew Laudato, Taylor’s Version

[00:00:00] You're listening to The Retail Razor Show, where your expert hosts and big guests cast through the classroom retail and retail tech to shape the future of retail. Hello and welcome to Season 3, Episode 17 of The Retail Razor Show. I'm your host, Ricardo Belmar. And I'm your co-host, Casey Golden.

[00:00:30] Welcome to Retail's favorite podcast for product junkies, commerce technologists, and everyone else in retail and retail tech alike. Casey, I have a question for you. That never ends well. Exactly, exactly. Let me just get to the question. Have you started getting ready for NRF 2024 this January? We didn't.

[00:00:52] I didn't really have much of a choice. Friday is already booked for the both of us. That's right. We're now at the VIP Awards Gala, where Retail Razor Show has been nominated for the Retail Voice Award two times in a row.

[00:01:05] And I was pleasantly surprised to see that LuxLock has been nominated in the Best Breakthrough Technology category. Looking forward to having all of us retail junkies in this same room to start the new year off. Absolutely.

[00:01:21] And for everybody listening, if you have not yet voted for the VIP Awards yet, please think about voting for Retail Razor. And LuxLock, we will have all the links you need in the show notes to make sure you get your votes in. So don't wait for that.

[00:01:35] So I have been in NRF mode for, I don't know, at least I'm going to say a month now and planning Microsoft with all our partners. Honestly, if we thought the 2023 NRF was a big return to normal post-pandemic mode,

[00:01:49] then I just think we're going to end up blowing that away in 2024 at this next center. Yeah, it sounds like you're saying NRF is probably going to be quite overwhelming for even seasoned NRF attendees, let alone a newbie at the show. Maybe we can do something about that.

[00:02:05] Help a newbie out. I think we've all been them. I think it takes what three or four years to maybe not be considered a newbie. I seem to recall that we had a guest on the show last year around this time with

[00:02:20] over 20 years of attending NRF that came on and shared his killer tips, tricks, hacks to make the most out of the show for any retailer. Why? Yes, Casey, I'm so glad you mentioned that. We did have a true NRF expert on the show last year.

[00:02:41] In fact, we're going to do something different than we normally do for this episode, and we're going to give our listeners a special replay of that episode where we spoke with none other than Andy Ladotto, the COO of the Vitamin Shop.

[00:02:54] And boy did he have a lot of amazing tips to share. It's fantastic, Ricardo, but wouldn't it be a little bit better if we could also have Andy back on the show today to share some of the updated

[00:03:05] tips or tell us about what he's looking forward to this year? Once again, I am so glad you mentioned that, Casey. It's almost as if we planned and scripted this or something. Shocking. I know. Sometimes like we share the same brain. Exactly. It's just so true.

[00:03:20] It's so true. So we do have Andy back with us for a quick update before we jump into the replay. And now we'll shift gears a bit for one of our newest segments on the show, Blade to Greatness, where we hear from a retail industry leader

[00:03:33] who shares their insights and wisdom on how to excel in this industry. In this segment, we learn about the essential skills and qualities that every retail executive needs to lead their teams and their business to success. Whether we're talking about the corporate office or stores will uncover valuable

[00:03:48] tips and advice that you can apply to your own retail career path. Today, we're speaking with April Sibral, founder of retail you dot ca an online leadership development portal for field leaders and also the author of two bugs, the positive effect

[00:04:04] and her latest incurable positivity after three decades running stores for brands such as Starbucks, Banana Republic, Apple, Holt Renfrew and David's Tea. April transitioned into coaching and training after seeing the impact of leadership firsthand on a retail business. Her current clients include brands like Jimmy Chu,

[00:04:26] L'Oreal, Victoria's Secret, David Spritle and more. Today, she's here to talk with us about one of the most important skills every retail leader needs, how to stop being enrolled into negativity news, doom and gloom and so on. Welcome, April. Hey, good morning. Nice to be here.

[00:04:43] It's interesting, right? How many times a day do people call you to tell you all the doom and gloom or send you emails or LinkedIn posts about like retail dead? Absolutely. All the time. 100%. So I'm not the person that anybody calls to actually do that

[00:04:59] because they know what's going to happen when they do that because I'm not being enrolled in those conversations. I always say life is like an enrollment game, right? Like we're enrolling customers to buy what we are selling

[00:05:10] and we're enrolling our teams to buy into what we want them and need them to do. And we're being enrolled in conversations all day that just not productive about what's going on. So this is one of the number one questions I get all the time now.

[00:05:26] It's like, oh, you're so positive. But like how do you deal with a person that come back you with negative news and just complaining about everything? And there's a fine line because you don't want to just come across as not yet, you're not listening.

[00:05:39] You don't have empathy and you're just ignoring everything they're saying because it's not certainly about that because listening makes people feel valued. Right? But I think what I coach most people on these days is just about just

[00:05:51] not being enrolled in it and like looking at it like a little bit of a game of like, OK, so I hear what you're saying, right? Like what I'm understanding is that you're stressed about what's happening in the world of retail.

[00:06:03] However, I do believe that there's some good things happening. Let's talk about that and what we can do to like bring more of that into this conversation so that we can move it forward. I just I just play games all day of enrolling people into positive

[00:06:16] conversations and actually when they leave, they feel a lot better. Right? Most of the time. So I think it's more about just not buying in and getting engaged in those circular conversations that really just not productive. They don't create any kind of action plans.

[00:06:32] They don't create any strategies. They don't create good vibrations and make you feel good. So it's it's hard. It's not easy, but for me, I have a lot of filters like I just I don't listen to the news every day.

[00:06:44] And actually, I got on an Uber the other day because I was traveling and he literally had the news on and it was just doom and gloom. And I was just like, can you change the channel? Or you could just I can't listen to anymore because I've just

[00:06:56] attuned myself to not. And usually people call me and tell me if there's something I need to know. But it's just yet to be about enrollment. It's about where you're how you're having those conversations all day. But you do want to acknowledge people.

[00:07:07] You don't want to ignore them and just be like not listening to it because that's just rude, right? And that's just not good people feel. So I spent a lot of time talking to you about that these days,

[00:07:16] how to not be enrolled and then how to enroll people into a good conversation. Yes, I feel that the overarching doom and gloom is very toxic these days. It doesn't take much to get a spiral. No, yeah. Yeah, 100 percent.

[00:07:34] I always say if you're going to actually have a conversation or be enrolled in a conversation, it's only make sure it's a good one. Right? Yeah. Pick a good one. If you're going to have you got the thought pick a good one.

[00:07:46] So yeah, but it is a skill in the way that you do that because when you start practicing this all day and you start like becoming the person that enrolls people in positive conversations and positive things happening, it gets a bit uncomfortable for people.

[00:07:59] I'm not going to lie because they're so used to complaining. But we've been hearing doom and gloom about retail debt for the last 15 years. As far as I know, it's always right. It's something that comes from stores,

[00:08:11] but there'll always be stores that close and there'll always be another brand that opens. That's just the cycle of retail. It is. That's why leases aren't forever. Right? Yeah, that's right. 100 percent. It's part of business. Yeah. You'd be signing in the time leases.

[00:08:26] Yeah. And I think too at the same time, right? No one wants to be a leader just to lead people down that negative path and to always be leading into gloom and doom. Right? The whole point to being in that leadership role is to help

[00:08:38] the team aspire to do something, right? And to accomplish something. And if you're not being positive about that and encouraging more positivity than how do you ever get them across the finish line on any goal?

[00:08:48] Yeah. And I just remember that when I got given goals and I was like, Oh Lord, how am I going to make sure that my team is achieving this with me? I could see literally when I would show up and like start kind of

[00:09:00] complaining about the goals or thing they're not realistic. And I'd be enrolling my team in that. And then they would start believing that because I was saying it because I had such an influence, whereas if I would show up and be like, OK,

[00:09:10] this goal is big, we're going to chunk it down, right? Like how are we going to achieve this? What can you do? What can we do to inspire people? And I would enroll them in the positive and I could just see the difference in the results immediately happen.

[00:09:22] And so that's where I learned that feel actually working through retelling the stores at times where it was tough, where goals were hard to achieve. So yeah, but it's the number one question I get asked all the time.

[00:09:35] How do I deal with negative people that are coming at me? And that's why I wrote a whole book about it. Yeah. Personally, I've seen a lot of my doom and gloom. I think we all know who those people are in our lives.

[00:09:47] Yeah. Do you find I find that most of them aren't even aware and I have to kind of bring it to their attention and say, like, this isn't going to help us or this isn't going to help me. And I need to stay this.

[00:10:00] So if you want to talk later this evening about it, it's fine, but I can't do it at noon. Yeah, they don't. Yeah. And that was so true. They don't know. And actually I flip it on them. So I like you just said, like, it's not helping me.

[00:10:11] I actually say to them, it's not helping you. It's not helping you. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm not helping you if I perpetuate this conversation, right? Because you're not going to feel good if you keep talking about it.

[00:10:20] Now we need to vent. We need to get a little bit about that. I usually say you got 17 seconds and then like, we'll move it on. Right. That's it. But yeah, it's I always say I'm not helping you if the best way I can support

[00:10:32] you is to help you find a solution or help you find a better thought or a better feeling in this situation because you're going to leave just uplifted and feeling better about everything. So yeah, but most people are not aware when they're doing it

[00:10:46] because we're just programmed that way in the world. Think about news. News is all negative news. When you have a turn on the news and really hear like great thing, you just don't.

[00:10:55] I don't really listen to anything more because no, maybe not how I want to start my morning. Yeah, exactly. Well, April, thank you so much for sharing another valuable insight with us and 100 percent with you on that, that the enrolment in the gloom and doom

[00:11:09] is never going to lead to success. You've got to find ways to turn that around. Thanks so much for sharing that with us. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you. Thanks, April. Without further delay, let's dive into that quick update with Andy Ladado

[00:11:23] and see what he's thinking about for NRF 2024. Welcome back to the show, Andy. I think this must be I'm thinking your third time on the show. Must I think your average, you know, once per season average so far. Well, thank you.

[00:11:36] It's really be back. Great to see you, Ricardo and Casey. Well, we too are also thrilled to have you back on the show for an update to one of our most popular episodes are NRF for Beginner Special from season two, Episode eight.

[00:11:49] So last time you were here, Andy, you talked through some really amazing tips for getting through NRF, making the most of it as an attendee, for especially for those who are new and never been to an RF before.

[00:12:01] I have a few highlights that are some of my favorites just a list for you. So I think the number one thing was have a plan, whether it was planning for your meetings, what you want to see on the show floor sessions, just about everything.

[00:12:14] In fact, you even mentioned planning for the free time moment so that you leave yourself some room for any of those unexpected things that you might run into, but certainly scheduling meetings in advance have to be part of the plan.

[00:12:24] Then you mentioned to be prepared to eat on the fly because you really don't want to leave the Javits for lunch or you lose too much time. And then we also talked about visiting your own stores if you

[00:12:33] have stores in the city while you're there, because that's always good. And then I think one of the most important ones you mentioned was writing a post-NRF recap report. So do you think those are still really good tips?

[00:12:44] Are there any other hot ones you would add to that really quickly? Yeah, I think they're great tips still. I would add just when you have a plan, I would just add to that also a goal. Like, you know, if these things happen, I'm successful.

[00:12:57] So maybe that you're looking for a new software to build some relationships or you're looking to sell software to make some partners, but really understand your goal and realize that it's very expensive to attend this event.

[00:13:07] I mean, if you're flying to New York City, staying in expensive hotels three, four or five days, either your own money or your company's money, you know, it's thousands of dollars to be part of it.

[00:13:16] So I'm just justifying the investment, especially if the economy is a little tougher. So if you have goals and you accomplish, I mean, if it costs you $3,000 to attend NRF, it sounds like a lot of money. But if you save your company hundreds of thousands or million dollars

[00:13:31] on making a bad mistake or making a good mistake, then it's a super good payback. So I would say have a goal and then build your plan based on achieving that goal. Before listeners dive into all the goodness you have to unwrap with your

[00:13:43] NRF tips, tell us the one thing you're looking for to the most for NRF 2024. Is there sessions, topics, what you might see on the show appointments? Yeah, well, NRF is now combined their supply chain org with the big show

[00:14:03] in January. So there's going to be sessions around supply chain. And my role as COO at the Vitally Shop, I oversee supply chain and technology. And so I'm really excited about that. I think it was a really good move.

[00:14:15] At first, I'm like, why are you going to cram even more into those three days? Hey, that's okay. We'll sleep later. Right. So I'm excited about that. And there's no doubt this year, the entire show is going to be all about AI. Yeah, the AI everywhere.

[00:14:30] Maybe frustrating and super important. So really seeing what others are thinking about AI, both retailers and suppliers and analysts. You know, that's pretty exciting. So supply chain and AI are going to be the themes. Maybe a little bit about the economy.

[00:14:45] There's definitely mixed messages about sales going up, sales going down. I always think it's a great place to get a macro viewpoint of where they are and we'll have early returns from November to September. From the holidays. Yeah, that's right.

[00:14:56] Let's say those are the big things I see for this year. Yeah. That's a good list. That's a good list. Any other... We won't be talking about COVID this year. For once, right? Yeah, finally. Finally, that's a lot of feature. Looking forward to that for sure.

[00:15:08] Any special events? There are always so many different outside events happening during NRF week. Any special events you're looking forward to? Yeah, and look, we haven't booked their travel yet. Really, I would say when you make your plan and your goal,

[00:15:21] you know, there's things that start Friday, Saturday, Sunday. The show used to be on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Then people get up on Sunday. Now the actual show is Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. So there's a really great event on Friday night called Vendors in

[00:15:35] Partnership and it's where awards are given to suppliers. I think that's a tremendous event. If you can make it to that. There's a big charity event called Retail Orphan Initiative Super Saturday on Saturday morning. If you're in retail, it's free to attend. No obligation.

[00:15:50] Your vendor, it's not that expensive and sometimes we call it tech and tears. But yeah, absolutely not hard to sign up for that event. There's a retail underground where retailers play rock and roll music. Yeah, that's easy to follow with a little Google search is a great one.

[00:16:06] There's a Sunday night retail insider party. These are the things I like to attend. That's the Captain Ike event. Right. But every single night there's either a dinner or an event or a blood fist. And so I would say that think of the NRF as the hub

[00:16:21] that brings people to New York in mid January. But a lot of the value in back to what your goals are, if your goal is networking, you're probably going to have better opportunity to network. Well, I want to say probably I say you will have a better opportunity

[00:16:34] to network at these events than on the show floor itself. So definitely look into those things and generally you probably could, you know, depending on who you are, what you are and all that, you probably get an opportunity to attend a lot of these.

[00:16:49] Yeah, I'm there for the before and afters. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think there's some of the best things happening during NRF or all these outside events and if you're still in town on Wednesday, then you can have kind of a relaxing coffee with a friend. That's right. That's right.

[00:17:03] Yeah, I always I always include that Wednesday in my plan. So we're talking about flying Friday morning and staying till Thursday. That are we? Yeah, or at least end of the day, Wednesday. Yeah, it's not a short trip. No, I think that's a good plan.

[00:17:19] And I think it also really just helps spread it out a little bit. A lot of people forget New York energy can be completely exhausting to somebody who is not here day in and day out. Yeah, exactly.

[00:17:35] Anything that you've learned last NRF that made you think, wow, that's that's pretty new or I like that hadn't thought of it that you'd add to your your list of tips for 2024? Yeah, you know, I think this actually have to go back and count.

[00:17:51] I think this will be my 20th or 21st NRF. And there's always like, was the what I was looking for? Like, oh, I need this software that but last year, it's been a lot more time with people both asking them and them asking me about the wise.

[00:18:05] And there's a lot of philosophy about whether you're going to go with composable commerce or a platform or this and in the answer is different for every company. So there's not like a right or wrong answer for these things.

[00:18:15] But I think really when you're talking to people in person, especially now that we're in video all the time, really drilling in with people about their philosophy towards these approaches and the why and why it makes sense for them or their company.

[00:18:28] I think that's a big thing that's really hit me is spending time. If someone chose to go with technology or process B, then drilling into what was the thinking behind that? And I feel like that will not just line up three different platforms,

[00:18:43] do an RFP and check out features, but really understand is our our HR approach, like say the why behind the what. So that would be the thing. Yeah, I love that the why behind the what.

[00:18:54] I think that's a great point because there is so much that you can find at an RF and I think to your earlier point, even if you have a goal around what is it that you want to learn the most about?

[00:19:04] You should also be paying attention to not just said the what, but that that why behind the what and why you want to make that choice or why you might not want to make that choice. And it can be different for everybody.

[00:19:13] And that's probably is that's why there are some good choices, right? That yeah, that's why there's so many choices. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it won't be the same answer for everybody. No doubt. No doubt. Well, let's take this moment and dive into the special replay

[00:19:26] of our NRF for Beginners episode with Andy Ladotto, COO of the Vitamin Shop and long term, long time NRF attendee. Today, we're here with a retailer who's no stranger to the show and has extensive experience making the most of the NRF show

[00:19:43] and all the activities during NRF week in New York City each year. That's right. So let's introduce our guest, Andrew Ladotto, COO of the Vitamin Shop and former CIO of Pure One Imports. Let's pave the way for the newbies coming to NRF this year.

[00:19:59] Welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for joining us today. So how many NRFs have each of you been to in your retail careers? Yeah, so I've been to 2021. This will be 22. Wow. I actually took a little stint on Saturday retail.

[00:20:14] Well, it sounds like a lot. But when you meet people there, you'll meet people with 30 plus and some of their belts. Yeah. I consider myself a veteran, but certainly not a senior. Some of the people we've been to. Yeah, I think this is a great opportunity

[00:20:25] for me to be able to meet people. I think it's a great opportunity for me to meet some of the people we've been to. Yeah, I think this is going to be my, I've lost track, even though it doesn't sound like I share like 11th or 12th NRF.

[00:20:38] So sometimes you're totally right about that, Andy. I'll run into someone and they'll say, oh, this is my 20th NRF. And I'm thinking, oh, that's kind of making me sound like the newbie. Wow. I think I'm only at like six. So you guys have definitely got me beat.

[00:20:52] Well, let's take a brief step back. And for those who are the true beginners to NRF, let's define exactly what NRF is. And so Andy, how would you describe the jam-packed NRF week as it's become a call in the last few years,

[00:21:05] you know, activity surrounding the actual NRF show and everything else that's going on in New York City during that nice bitter cold week in January that we're always also used to? Yeah. So we all call it NRF or NRF week, but actually NRF means it stands

[00:21:19] for the National Retail Federation. And it's our retail advocacy and lobby organization. So most retailers are members of the National Retail Federation. And every year, the NRF puts on several shows, conferences, events around different disciplines, technology, supply chain, digital, store ops. But in New York once a year,

[00:21:40] they have what they call the Big Show. And so we just call it the NRF and but it's the Big Show. I don't know if this is true, but the story is 100 plus years ago, retailers all got together in New York City

[00:21:52] and said, how do we do over the holidays? I just imagine like 12 people in a room with a box of donuts and it really evolves in there. I wonder if that's true. You're awesome. I made it up, but it sounds good though. You can picture it.

[00:22:06] Like it's a building filled with many pants. So as a retailer, what should our goals be attending? What kind of ROI do you expect to get from this trip? Yeah, in case I'm glad you use the term ROI.

[00:22:21] I mean, people spend a lot of time and money to attend. Hotels in New York are $300 to $500 a night and then travel. Absolutely, you can go behind every event. Yeah, exactly. Right. So I think it's really important and if you get the opportunity to go,

[00:22:39] especially one of your first times, make sure your company feels like they got their money's worth of their investment. And so I always have goals. I think everyone should set some goals and mine are pretty simple, but when I think they're powerful.

[00:22:52] So my goal will be to come back from the big show with one to three brand new ideas, something I haven't heard, read, whether it's been on a podcast. So you get inspired, whether you're in a formal session or a chat or social

[00:23:05] and you hear something someone's doing or contemplating and to get one new idea that you could bring back to your business makes the investment palatable or worth it. Then I also have a goal of having, making three or more retail connections. Just to meet someone new,

[00:23:22] finding someone in a different company that does what you did or maybe they're ahead of you on some journey on either Omni or digital or some path that's important to you. So making that connection that you can follow up with later is really, really key.

[00:23:35] And then the last thing on my return on investment was to get a scorecard on how you're doing to honestly judge yourself when you talk to others. And sometimes you find, everyone's not as far along, sometimes you may be like, wow, I feel like we're behind

[00:23:50] when you read all the hype and then you start talking to people about the reality or you may find that someone's way ahead of you on something and then that sets the standard that we need to redouble our efforts. That makes sense. I find that NRF,

[00:24:06] different than a lot of other trade shows has more customers join rather than some other trade shows and industry events where I find that it's a sea of vendors. I definitely feel like I get to meet more customers and more retailers that attend NRF

[00:24:20] from like the daytime into the evenings. Yeah, you know, and then if you're new you'll notice quickly that the interact is kind enough to color code your badges. And so you'll be able to tell someone is a, I'm a retailer, from a supplier,

[00:24:34] from the analyst, or they are speaker. So you'll learn the code pretty quick. And if you're a, calling your buyer not a seller you're gonna get a lot more attention walking down the aisle. That's true. But yeah, you're certainly fine. And not just, I would say not just

[00:24:48] a lot more retailers, but a lot more principals. You're talking about CEOs and a lot of C-suite also attend the show. Yeah, that's true. I'm curious about one thing you just said there I'm gonna go Andy about seeing how far along you are.

[00:25:01] I'm curious is when you're thinking about that are you in a way trying to gauge and compare where you're at versus what all the industry hype might be before you get to the show and kind of are you trying to see if while you're there at the show

[00:25:15] can I level set around that hype? Is it really hype or is there something real there that maybe you aren't doing and you don't feel like you're far along or maybe they're things that you haven't been able to figure out if you should be doing

[00:25:26] but you keep hearing all this hype and you get to the show and you're trying to validate that. Yeah, you hear the hype and you try to validate it right? So I'll make something up because this has been going on since my first interview to talk about RFID.

[00:25:38] Yeah. And it changed the world and talk about that and you know you open up the press and people are like, oh we solved all our inventory woes with that RFID. So you sit down with people and talk about what did it take? How was it?

[00:25:51] Was it really worth it? And you kind of get that honest. And if you meet with 25 people and ask them all about same question you really get a better feel for than just reading the article. What about the sessions at NRF?

[00:26:02] Do you go to the sessions that are there and if you do, how do you decide which ones are worth your time to go to? And I guess the sort of second part to that is for this coming NRF are there any sessions you're particularly interested in?

[00:26:16] So I think the sessions are extremely important. I think it's easy to not go because you end up getting all these invitations before and the expo booth is, for a retailer you can pretty much get in for free that's not that difficult but I think they're extremely important.

[00:26:30] So for me it's the keynotes because ultimately every NRF ends up with a feel to it or a theme. And I have some theories of what I think the theme will end up being this year and I think it'll be around your business in a tough economy.

[00:26:47] But I don't know, we'll see and I think getting to some sessions are important. The sessions that I like to attend are really about the, call it the bleeding edge stuff. I'm actually, I'll do a little plug, I'm that moderator of a session on digital twins

[00:27:01] on Sunday afternoon. So I'm super excited about that topic and I know very little about it so I'm gonna learn a lot being the moderator of that. So those are the kind of sessions I like and then anyone who's done something you're trying to do. So for example,

[00:27:16] we're at the vitamin shop, we just last year rolled out buy online store ships boss. So any session on those we were eager to get to because we heard some learnings we can have from others. What would you, as a retailer, what kind of advice would you give

[00:27:33] to a technology vendor that's going for the first time? Because they're there for you, right? So. I think the interfiction was most amazing place to meet people for the first time and get started. So my advice would be to try to have your meetings just about

[00:27:52] have some coffee and get to know someone. I don't think you should try to demo in detail. It's loud, it's noisy. There's interruptions. It's a horrible place to sit down and spend 45 minutes going through and new AI driven planning system, right? People aren't gonna be able to focus.

[00:28:08] So I think for technology vendors, you know, make plans up front of who you want to meet with, reach out and make the meetings really as casual as you're comfortable doing. And it may not feel worthwhile but I think that's more worthwhile than trying to

[00:28:22] no one, no one shop. No one shows up at the inter fake show with their checkbook, right? We're not shopping. Right. Where they'll learn and to make relationships. So that's my advice is just focus on the relationship. It's great that you're really not there to shop.

[00:28:37] Things were saying that out loud, Andrew. So let me ask you then on... I've never bought a single thing in 20 years. Yeah, I was just gonna say yeah, I bet that was gonna be the answer. Yeah, which I think I kind of find with most retailers,

[00:28:48] I know that that's always true. It's, you know, it's, you're not there to decide to buy, you're there to learn, right? You're there to find out and investigate and kind of help you, help set up maybe some guide rules around where you want to go

[00:28:59] and what you want to look for. That's great. I mean that really helps everybody understand like what value they need to be thinking about providing when they show up. So I guess maybe also along those lines, Andy, just thinking in terms of

[00:29:10] from the retail tech vendors that are there, right? In so many cases right now, I'll speak from the vendor side here. There's always a desire to try to show off for every vendor what we have to every retailer that comes by. And to your point, right?

[00:29:25] Where you're kind of saying focus on building the relationship. You know, it's not the best environment to go through a detailed demo and kind of thing. So I'm curious, what advice would you have vendors who are totally focused on making sure they have the right demo

[00:29:38] and the right experience to show off to any retailer that comes by? What's your advice for that vendor in terms of how they should present themselves? Yeah, let me start with something that people may forget about. It's a good opportunity for retail vendors

[00:29:52] to show up their existing relationships. I mean, a lot of us haven't seen each other for three years, right? So, you know, start with that. And again, I always talk about the principles are there. We're gonna apply CEO Sharon. Lidie's gonna be at the under-off.

[00:30:05] She's on the board of the under-off. So, you know, establishing and affirming up those relationships because remember, we're wandering around CIO, COO. We're wandering around to these parties events and people are asking us, what do you use for this? What do you use for that?

[00:30:19] So, you know, that's kind of like almost like a defensive but focus on your incumbents first like your existing customers. And then my second thing would be just to be, you know, I don't know what the right analogy is but to be targeted. What's the point?

[00:30:34] A lot of people in my mind seem like they consider winning the maximum number of meetings but go for quality over quantity is what I would say. I mean, people beg me to come meet in their booth where I have no interest

[00:30:47] and I'm not shopping and I tell them that but it seems like they don't care. I mean, someone offered me $100 to meet with them which I find really quite humorous. I'd like to go back and tell my younger self that. But why?

[00:30:58] Why are they so desperate for me to come to their booth if they know I'm not interested? I guess it's just to take a chill, right? So don't do that. 10 good meetings way better than 30 substandard meetings. Is there any one thing that you've seen

[00:31:13] vendors do in the past that you just said to yourself why would you do that? Please stop doing that. Don't do that again. Yeah, but tackle you when you're coming down the aisle. Right? I mean. Okay, yeah. A lot of us try to flip around our badge

[00:31:26] but since you just interrupt me, you step in front of me, start chatting. Give me your pitch. I don't know you. I know where you are. I know what you're doing. I'm late for something and it's just that's going to be,

[00:31:37] tell my relationship building you're starting with this. Right, that's right. Yeah, you're doing the opposite right there. So this is fascinating. So related question, what are your top tips overall? I'm a big fan of the coat check but what about lunch, et cetera?

[00:31:52] Have you ever done any lunch meetings like away from NRF? Yeah, so, you know, it's important to have a plan and your first time at NRF. I mean, I'm glad you mentioned coat check. Like you walk in and there's a long line to check your code

[00:32:04] and you come, if you come the first day, you know, and you have to have a code. I mean, it's New York City and January is cold. It could be snowing, freezing rain but just be like, have a plan. If you see a long line,

[00:32:14] I bet if you go down, the place is really huge. You go down another section, there'll be a no line or someone might invite you to have, I know some, I am not going to say who but I know a vendor who built a coat check

[00:32:25] into their booth. Yeah. You get traffic and that's where my quote goes. Actually, right. I always find anytime that there's a line at an event that's really an opportunity to meet your neighbor because you most work at a conversation when you're both sitting there like complaining or waiting.

[00:32:42] Absolutely, the line in Starbucks, you know. I agree. And that's when they talk about having a goal of making at least three new relationships. Yeah. But you could get frustrated very quickly like getting to Jamits in the morning on a bus and then waiting in a line

[00:32:56] and then now all of a sudden you're missing the keynote and you go in there and there's no more seats and you're nervous and stressed. So have a plan, get there early, put your coat somewhere smart. Remember where you put it?

[00:33:07] The lunch at Jamits is really almost inedible. It's horrible and expensive. And so I don't recommend at all leaving the Jamits Center. You know, you're gonna, well we sell plenty of healthy protein bars at the vitamin shop or on the floor,

[00:33:23] you know these boots are gonna have popcorn and candy but I would definitely run on eating on the fly. The reason I say don't leave is that now you gotta get your coat again and then you're gonna go somewhere

[00:33:32] and if it's a sit down restaurant, that takes time. So you're talking about an hour and a half minimum to leave the grounds for lunch. So I wouldn't recommend that. But yeah, just I would say have a plan for all these things and don't be frustrated.

[00:33:43] And if you wanna get your badge early like you can sometimes get your badge at the hotel in satellite places. So that's a nice little trick. If not, if you come in a day before you can get it the day before

[00:33:54] they may even have ways you can print it. Read the instructions are not a lot but sometimes like you need your ID or you need this or that or I don't know if they're gonna do it COVID but just read the instructions, be ready

[00:34:03] and take the stress off by having a plan for these things. So on that topic of scheduling meetings, for example, you know so good tip you mentioned, you know don't try to leave in the middle of the day from Jamits Center and expect to come back.

[00:34:16] What do you do around meetings? You know for example, do you try to avoid having too many meetings in a row because I know I've always found like the biggest challenge is Jamits is bigger than you think it is.

[00:34:25] So just trying to get from one meeting to another can be tricky sometimes, especially if you're trying to go between floors and you gotta leave yourself enough time but do you have a strategy for how you look at scheduling meetings on your calendar while you're there?

[00:34:38] Yeah so not only is it really really big you got the people stopping you like I mentioned earlier right? So you got the gong to try to get to your meeting and plan your meetings with the map. And so they'll lay out where the booths are

[00:34:49] and if you have, you know you wanna meet with say six people on it on one of the days. So what I would do is I would start, sit down and start with what sessions do you absolutely want to attend? And block those out in your calendar.

[00:35:01] And lonely say okay who do I absolutely wanna meet with then reach out to them and I've already done a lot of this and they need to be doing this now right? These things I laugh when someone will invite me to dinner like the day before.

[00:35:13] And I laugh because they spell books for everyone right? So I mean then lay out the meetings kind of like from, you know the Javits is numbered from zero to whenever 10,000 so either go left or right or right to left and be smart about it.

[00:35:28] And just plan if you can that's a big puzzle cause they also have to be available but plan your meetings. And then you will encounter something that you want to see at the Javits that you don't know about before you go. So there's some balance

[00:35:41] you wanna leave some free time maybe at the end of the day to say oh wow I met this person in the line at the co-check and I wanna go by and meet them so leave some time for that as well.

[00:35:51] What about some of the other big attractions during that week are all these other insular events that are happening Casey mentioned it right? All the things in the celebrations, the dinners everything happening all around the city outside of the Javits and outside of the show

[00:36:03] I would even say some of my favorite the things that happen at NRF are those extra events I think in case you're probably saying that's why you go to those too. And then some are vendor led some are vendor sponsored

[00:36:13] some are not really led in any way by a vendor they have a different purpose. What are your goals and expectations around how you approach those events? Yeah so for a lot of people for me I usually never even came to New York City other than the NRF

[00:36:26] so if you wanna see New York City I mean New York City is an amazing place so you could maybe plan some of your own time one thing that may fascinate people like you may pick a night and only go have dinner with your coworkers.

[00:36:39] You know I know you'd have to pay your company you'll have to pay or you have to pay yourself but something you don't probably normally do back home is spend some time so everything doesn't have to be and you don't have to be on

[00:36:48] and you don't have to be here in a pitch so that's something that we did all the time after when we'd pick a night and just have dinner with all of our coworkers that came to the show. I think the more people that attended dinner

[00:36:59] the longer it takes and I actually have some math formula I had like seven minutes for every attendee to my dinner so when you start to get into these number one thing I ask is how many people are gonna be there

[00:37:08] so if it's a 30 person dinner in a big room you're looking at three plus hours I try to avoid those I'd rather kind of bop from call it a happy hour and a happy hour kind of event where I can meet people and have one-on-one conversations

[00:37:20] I know I keep talking about not eating but there's plenty you're gonna eat yeah your bars and the popcorn and the treats and then there's gonna be at these happy hours we'll call them happy hours or cocktail there's gonna be plenty of orders

[00:37:32] that you know kind of stay on the fly is what I like to do maybe pick out that one night for a team meeting and then bop from event to event. There's one vendor and I'm not gonna say who it is but it's usually probably around like 11 o'clock

[00:37:47] at every trade show they're like my before lunch stop because they have like this whole entire booth made out of jellybites yeah I'm like it's just great I have a fun enough story so years ago I was talking to someone at a booth and they ordered out SubSan

[00:38:05] and they were delicious cause in New York you can find amazing delis and then it became a thing so the next year I'm like hey you guys gonna do that again they actually got to where they were bringing in hundreds of sandwiches and they reorganized their booth

[00:38:18] well the Interf got angry cause they wanna make money or the Java center got into their rules and unions and so they shut it down but I had a good thing going for a few years there in 30 days cause they had they had the lunch booth going so

[00:38:31] yeah I mean I find when you offer food at any trade show even you know when I was on the fashion side going to market feed people with good food and they'll stick around and come back great alright so we also have to recognize that

[00:38:46] if you're new to Anarov you also might be new to the city and New York City is one of the most it's like the pure definition of a city and yeah I'd argue the best city in the world I'm gonna go wild but I don't argue it

[00:39:01] I mean granted I just went to a couple really beautiful cities last week but there's nothing like New York but it can be definitely overwhelming for a lot of new people especially new people coming into you know there's a lot of people that have new jobs

[00:39:14] right and this is their first time to Anarov first time in New York City where would you suggest a beginner to stay or how to get around something that they they must see just because they're in New York City for the first time

[00:39:28] yeah so let me go back first of all it's about getting here right so there are three airports there's the LaGuardia Airport which most people think where they need to fly but there's also JFK which is a little more of a hassle

[00:39:39] but you may save hundreds of dollars or get a more convenient time and then there's the Newark Airport don't sleep on Newark it's just as close to Manhattan at LaGuardia yeah so there you go and you know so there's three choices for airports

[00:39:52] once you get to the airport you gotta get to the city the biggest hack now now I take the subway but I'm not gonna recommend the subway from the airport for a beginner but the biggest hack is the oldest hack it's the cabs

[00:40:04] so it used to be yet I had to take a cab and then Uber came but now everyone's taking Uber so the cabs have no line and there's an app that let's turn your cab into Uber called clubbed C-U-R-B-E-D you download that app

[00:40:18] and there's a number in the back of the cab you sync it so you don't have to deal with paying the driver so my hack at LaGuardia is just to go down and get a cab but the cab stand no wait

[00:40:28] and then all the people fighting over the Uber is in that parking garage deal with that so that's that so now we're there you get into Manhattan where to stay I guess if you stay at one of the sanctioned hotels on the NRF website now you know back

[00:40:43] years ago there was nothing out by Javits it's out by the water in a rail yard but now there's Hudson Yards so you're starting to see more restaurants and hotels out there but another thing I will say is don't get on the bus to the NRF show

[00:40:56] so there's buses from the hotels it's so easy to take the subway and I know subways are scary but there's a seven subway it's one stop from Times Square it goes right by Javits you don't need a car anymore you just pay with your cell phone

[00:41:09] or even your Apple Watch it's a seven train can you just take the seven train west you get off there there's no other place to get off than the last stop and you're right there it's two dollars and seventy five cents and that's my big advice as well

[00:41:24] well as a transplant in New Yorker it's only three avenues you can always walk it I always like to remind people that like you don't have cars just you know get your steps in well speaking of walking whether you're walking to Javits or not

[00:41:42] you're gonna walk a lot oh yeah yeah yeah walk a lot yeah and you know your woman so you can talk about shoes but shoes become an issue do you want to look good you know where you're watching you'll see how many steps you get in

[00:41:54] but even whether you take the bus the subway you walk the Javits once you get there you're gonna walk a lot around you'll be walking basically for eight to ten out yeah yeah so much walking so you know another interesting thing you brought up when we were

[00:42:08] ahead of this session and you were talking about what kind of tips were there be you mentioned a few things about thinking about who's listening in your conversations what did you mean by that yeah so you know New York is what millions and millions of people live here

[00:42:20] but it's it becomes a real small world in the retail so you get on a flight and it seems more often than not the person next to me some kind of vendor and when you're at the bad claim I've had people come up to me

[00:42:31] and recognize me from like then and so just be careful what you're saying about your company business personal just assume that you know I mean probably rare that it will happen but it seems to happen a lot to me so just be careful what you're saying

[00:42:43] on an airplane in the cab you know as you're going around the city you know so especially people start drinking they get loud and people can overthink it so you know I'd be careful about that it's just about you know being professional when you travel

[00:42:56] I guess is as simple as you're saying I've met some of my favorite people and long-term friends from traveling and hitting airports during this time of the year people who worked at different consulting companies or technology vendors or retailers literally from a flight delay and having a chat

[00:43:18] you know over like an unexpected dinner at the airport or literally just sitting next to them on the flight so I mean it's a great opportunity but yeah somebody the likelihood of somebody sitting next to you that's going to the same show very high yeah

[00:43:34] now you could arrange for a ride I've certainly used the opportunity to arrange for a ride like a let's grab a cab to the city together yeah you know there's two of you or three of you and the cab is going to be 65 bucks

[00:43:44] and that's pretty nice to share and you got another 45 minutes to chat with your new friend yeah have you ever visited nrf as a part of a group where the whole company's kind of going I know you mentioned doing company dinners but what is that

[00:44:00] I've always gone solo what is that kind of light when you've got a whole bunch of group of co-workers going together I think there's a lot of positives like I said you could have the dinner together you can also divide and conquer so I'm gonna focus you know

[00:44:14] so sit down with the group and say oh who's gonna go to what sessions and then take notes for each other and come back and share what you learned if you're all there on the same mission maybe you can all hear something together

[00:44:22] if you're all there looking at XYZ category of software I would say you know to my tech friends the introverts it is you have to be careful because with your with people you know so you go to a party it's a lot easier just to stay with them

[00:44:37] and talk to them but don't do that force yourself to break out and go make the new connections and if one of your goals is to make at least three new connections it sounds like Casey you have no problem doing that

[00:44:47] but there are certainly people that come from more of the you know technical side of the house or other places where they're not naturally extroverts so you got to kind of force yourself to not just hang back with your coworker that you talk to

[00:45:00] at least on Zoom every day Yeah, so butterfly So you know one trick I tell people is to use the extroverts to your advantage so let's say someone meets you in a social event they can ask you hey will you introduce me to another retailer

[00:45:16] and so they may not just want to walk up especially if people are in a group and that's the other thing if people come in a group and they stand in a group they're not really approachable but someone like you would be easily able to bust in yeah

[00:45:28] so I might say hey Casey I really want to meet people like I don't know I'm telling you Louie Vitale and you're like I know them you want me to introduce you right so the introverts can use the extroverts to build their relationships Yeah, I always

[00:45:40] I was very shy growing up who would have thought and I always go and try and find like people who are kind of like being like a wallflower almost and like oh come on in get into the conversation or come join because you never really do know

[00:45:57] who that who those people are but I find that some of the introverts they're they're very good operators want to know who you are absolutely otherwise it's like a whole bunch of a lot of social people they're usually salespeople exactly that's yeah

[00:46:10] like I don't want to talk to another salesperson wear some operators keep it interesting exactly so maybe related to to that narrative should have asked earlier and I mean this NRF coming up are there other side events or other insert events around town

[00:46:28] that you're excited about this year that you're looking forward to yeah no I'm very active and I know you are too with the retail ROI which is the retail orphan mission and you get to go in that time Saturdays and there may be opportunities still to attend

[00:46:42] whether you're a retailer or supplier at that event is really amazing content for learning amazing content about what the organization does for orphans around the world and it's a worthwhile cause right just your attendance alone helps so that's I put that as number one is my favorite event

[00:47:00] and I've been doing since the original one there's even if you back up you know years ago the internet started on Monday went through Wednesday the show then the Seattle councils and the other councils were made on Sundays so then the show started to move things backwards

[00:47:14] so then great music put in something on Saturday now there's a big key control has something called vendors and partnerships which is really exciting it's about bringing together the providers and the retailers and giving an award show and that's moved us back Friday Friday

[00:47:28] so it really has become a weekend event you know now you're talking about traveling on Friday spending the weekend and the show ends on Tuesday now so again it's not just about the job it's it's about from Friday Saturday no those are my favorite events there's

[00:47:44] Kathy Hocker secret event you gotta know you gotta know to know so if you want to get on that you gotta figure it out that makes it more fun but I hear about things even though after 20 years that go on that I had known yeah

[00:47:56] or sometimes I find out there's something so I also don't want to pigeon old people into what I do because it's it's amazing there are sometimes events at the big flagship stores in town right or store tours it's another thing we didn't talk about but you know

[00:48:08] especially if you come in a day earlier staying extra day you can really do some retailing and get out and see a lot of a lot of stores yeah highly recommend visiting stores during holiday season no matter no matter what type of retailer you are hitting the flagships

[00:48:24] in New York City is an experience in itself and you know if your company has stores in the city absolutely make sure you get into those stores and so high to those yeah absolutely store sunk shiits and you know there's so many learnings so many learnings

[00:48:40] even as a even as a shopper right you don't have to be in the own brand it doesn't have to be a competitive brand just being able to experience a fifth avenue and hit up 10 different stores it's very rare that we get to

[00:48:54] to see that level of quality and we're just have that much access to what a lot of the flagship experiences are so I'm a big advocate a lot of people come in from like mid-door tiers and so I think it's always pretty special when you have a chance

[00:49:09] to visit the flagships yeah I agree with that I've often done that when I'll stay over on Wednesday in fact day after the show is over just to do that just to visit different stores around the city just to get a get a chance to see and experience

[00:49:24] what's new what's special about those locations with so many flagship stores there and and other interesting experiences to compare with so I guess that kind of begs the question Andy so you've gone through all these things to do while you're at NRF all these things to do

[00:49:39] around NRF what do you do after the show you get back home back to the office then what do you do so I may sound nerdy but I always write a report so I always use my flight home to read all my notes and summarize what I learned

[00:49:54] what I saw and then I published it well you're like I mean I used to be on a four-hour flight you got you know if you're not going to nap and you can at least do that but if you don't do it then you're gonna

[00:50:06] you're already behind at work because you've been gone for four days right so then I just you know publish that to the exec team and peers and say here's what I saw what I learned and that's the first thing and then it's it's justifying the ROI

[00:50:20] we talked about up front so you know you have so much fun you want to make sure you can get to go again and so you make sure you justify the investment maybe then follow-ups I send thank yous great thing if you can give me gifts or meetings

[00:50:31] I'll do that when I'm back and then the things that you really want to wow you have your one big idea you want to chase so start scheduling meetings to talk about then back home so I do have a conference hack for note taking

[00:50:46] that I found extremely beneficial is I open up a slack channel and I invite a few people into my slack channel and I take notes in slack and take pictures of the business cards as I get them and so I'll have an entire slack channel

[00:51:00] that the team is actually digesting throughout the day and doing like end of day recaps and then already on it before I even get back but I do I love it that's cool slack channel because it's mid-thought I'll just go in there right after I need somebody

[00:51:15] and leave notes so I can remember contacts more pens and papers for me but I'd share it right with the team immediately so I've even had people get back to me and say oh this person is also friends with this person and they had just left this company

[00:51:29] and I literally was still in conversation and I was able to like have the extra contact so it is nice to have that that slack channel open with somebody that's a great task I'm so impressed by all of these like valuable tips and tricks and recommendations

[00:51:46] I don't know where you were when I went to my first NRAF it was very overwhelming for me just because I didn't know anybody was and how to navigate successfully because there's just so many vendors but this is just amazing is there anything that we've missed

[00:52:00] anything you want to add before we close out Andy? Yeah look it's you can have some fun too right I don't know what's that we're boomdoggle but you're getting a guy on a trip and meet some amazing people and see some amazing things maybe you did a restaurant

[00:52:12] you couldn't normally get into or click normally forward so enjoy yourself have some fun right it's not all work it should be mostly work but not all work corporate accounts man I missed those well Andy thanks so much for coming back to the show

[00:52:27] and joining us for this like just like KC said and some amazing tips and a really excellent guide to NRAF for beginners I don't know I can keep track of all of them I took some notes myself like I said at the beginning

[00:52:38] this might be my 11th or 12th NRAF but sometimes I still feel like I'm the beginner learning all the best tips and tricks on how to get through the week all right well I look forward to seeing both of you there absolutely well Ricardo I think that

[00:52:51] this episode is a wrap thank you so much Andy very welcome if you enjoyed our show please consider giving us a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts remember to smash that subscribe button in your favorite podcast player or on YouTube so you don't miss a minute

[00:53:13] and if you haven't tried Good Pod's player yet give them a spin and follow our show we recently hit the top of the charts in indie management and marketing podcasts we love hearing feedback from our Good Pods fans if you want to know more

[00:53:27] about what we talked about today take a look at the show notes for handy links and more dates I'm your co-host Casey Golden and if you'd like to connect with us and share your feedback follow us and the show on Twitter at kccgolden Ricardo underscore Belmar

[00:53:41] and at retail razor or find us on LinkedIn and if you want even more from us be sure and subscribe to our sub-stack newsletter for full episode transcripts and bonus content I'm your host Ricardo Belmar thanks for joining us and remember there's never been a better time

[00:54:00] to be in retail if you cut through the clutter until next time this is the retail razor show