S3E18 – Focusing on Customer Experience with Retail Transformer – Nadina Guglielmetti, Chief Customer Officer, The Vitamin Shoppe

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to season three episode 18 of The Retail Razor Show.

[00:00:25] I'm your host Ricardo Belmar.

[00:00:27] And I'm your co-host Casey Golden.

[00:00:30] Welcome to Retail's favorite podcast for product junkies, commerce technologists and everyone

[00:00:35] else in retail and retail tech alike.

[00:00:38] So Casey, this episode is our last Retail Transformer of season three.

[00:00:43] And how appropriate that we end with a discussion around customer experience and marketing.

[00:00:48] I love it.

[00:00:49] And this shouldn't be too big of a surprise to our loyal listeners given our season

[00:00:53] three themes of automation and AI, immersive in any work commerce and back to the basics

[00:01:00] of retailing.

[00:01:01] All of these themes ultimately come back to customer experience.

[00:01:05] Yeah, 100%.

[00:01:06] It's one of my favorite topics too.

[00:01:08] And of course, if we're going to talk about customer experience with a retailer, we've

[00:01:12] got to go straight to the top and invite someone who holds a chief customer officer

[00:01:16] role.

[00:01:17] Okay.

[00:01:18] So you are going to just keep that guest a secret or are you going to tell everyone

[00:01:23] who it is?

[00:01:24] Well, you know how much I'd like to do things dramatically.

[00:01:27] Yes.

[00:01:28] So true.

[00:01:29] Maybe next season we'll budget in some extra sound effects for you.

[00:01:36] I'm all about that extra dramatic effect.

[00:01:42] All right.

[00:01:43] So I can't stand the suspense.

[00:01:45] So I'll go ahead and share that our guest is not other than Nadina Guglio-Matti

[00:01:51] chief customer officer of the vitamin shop in her role.

[00:01:56] Nadia leads development and implementation of customer focus strategies to enhance

[00:02:02] customer satisfaction, loyalty and profitability.

[00:02:07] She oversees omnichannel marketing initiatives including brand and performance

[00:02:11] marketing, customer insights.

[00:02:13] And of course, one of my favorites customer relationship management.

[00:02:17] Additionally, she is responsible for managing digital commerce.

[00:02:22] Another near and dear to my heart of topics.

[00:02:27] And not only that, but before landing at the vitamin shop, Nadia was a management

[00:02:34] consultant executive director at Engine UK working with Unifleaver and

[00:02:40] digital chief digital and strategy officer of Kaplow Communications.

[00:02:46] She also has held various marketing positions at brands like Week Communications,

[00:02:51] L'Oreal, Pfizer, the Asta Lauder companies.

[00:02:55] So wow, wow, wow.

[00:02:58] She has quite the fantastic career journey and I can't wait to hear more.

[00:03:03] Yeah.

[00:03:03] And after listening to this conversation, I am sure that listeners will 100%

[00:03:08] agree that Nadina is without a doubt more than meets the eye.

[00:03:11] And that's, yeah, you've worked it in there again, Ricardo.

[00:03:15] Well, you know, you can't stop me from doing it.

[00:03:18] Always got to do it.

[00:03:19] But one thing that can stop us at least temporarily from jumping right into

[00:03:23] that conversation with Nadina is for us to take a brief pause on customer

[00:03:27] experience and bring our focus back to those store associates and

[00:03:31] frontline store teams that just about every customer experience initiative

[00:03:35] ends up relying on for the ultimate execution.

[00:03:39] It's once again time for one of our newest segments on the show,

[00:03:42] Blade to Greatness, where we hear from a retail industry leader who shares

[00:03:46] their insights and wisdom on how to excel in this dynamic and competitive field.

[00:03:52] In this segment, we learn about the essential skills and qualities

[00:03:55] that every retail executive needs to lead their teams and their business to success.

[00:03:59] Whether we're talking about the corporate office or stores,

[00:04:02] we'll uncover valuable tips and advice that you can apply to your own

[00:04:05] retail career growth.

[00:04:07] This episode, we're speaking with Ron Thurston, co-founder of Aussie,

[00:04:11] bestselling author of Retail Pride, podcast host, speaker, advisor and board member.

[00:04:17] Ron leverages his extensive experience leading retail operations for

[00:04:22] America's most prominent brands to bring attention to the issues

[00:04:26] facing frontline workers and retail leaders today.

[00:04:30] After releasing his first book, Retail Pride and launching the Retail

[00:04:34] in America tour and podcast, Ron has co-founded Aussie to disrupt

[00:04:39] how the retail industry hires, engages, connects retail workers

[00:04:44] with retail brands and technology providers.

[00:04:47] And today he's here to talk to us about a truly important question

[00:04:50] that every retail leader needs to answer.

[00:04:53] What can retailers do today to bridge communication from the floor to corporate?

[00:04:58] Welcome, Ron. Awesome. Thank you.

[00:05:00] Thank you so much, Casey and Ricardo.

[00:05:02] It's a pleasure to be back as always.

[00:05:04] I love being on your show and I love this topic.

[00:05:07] When you sent the description, you know, you're right.

[00:05:11] This is this is a topic that comes up really often from peers of mine,

[00:05:17] those that have led stores and now lead brands, people who work in the field

[00:05:23] and sometimes have frustration with corporate and corporate

[00:05:26] that has frustration with the field.

[00:05:27] Like I sit in a position today, we're actually here from both sides.

[00:05:31] So I where I was I do, you know?

[00:05:36] And so, you know, where I would start with this question

[00:05:40] is the same place I start every conversation, which are

[00:05:44] I've kind of spoken about this often on your show

[00:05:47] is what I call the three pillars of success in retail.

[00:05:51] And, you know, they've become more around pillars of success in life,

[00:05:55] but empathy, curiosity and focus.

[00:05:58] And so if I saw that question and I'd say,

[00:06:01] what could we do to bridge the gap today between corporate and stores?

[00:06:07] I'll start with on the corporate side.

[00:06:09] The first thing I would do would be think about empathy.

[00:06:13] What what do I imagine people in stores are feeling today?

[00:06:18] Think, are they are they under pressure for sales goals?

[00:06:21] Do they have the right inventory?

[00:06:23] Are they fearful of increase in kind of disruptive shopping activity?

[00:06:29] We'll call it or being hurt at work.

[00:06:31] You know, there's a lot of really important conversations

[00:06:34] that would lean into empathy.

[00:06:37] So the first thing I do is, well, how do I imagine stores are feeling today?

[00:06:41] And the follow up to that is, well, I'm going to ask

[00:06:45] because the best thing you can do to bridge the gap is to build trust

[00:06:50] and trust only is developed by being curious

[00:06:55] and then by acting on that information.

[00:06:58] So I think there's a lot of conversation of corporate spending more time in stores.

[00:07:03] I don't try to judge that or how much time you should spend

[00:07:08] because everyone has a lot on their plate.

[00:07:09] There's a lot of there's a lot of things that impact someone's ability

[00:07:14] to travel or to have the budget to do so.

[00:07:17] So what I say is whether it's a phone call, a zoom call, a store visit,

[00:07:22] whatever your forum for communication is,

[00:07:25] the best thing you can do is ask questions and be curious and say,

[00:07:29] you know what, Ricardo, like, how are you feeling today?

[00:07:32] Like, what do you and your team, what are you experiencing?

[00:07:36] What are the conversations you're having when there's no customers in the store?

[00:07:41] What do you really need to drive your business?

[00:07:44] What what tools and resources do you have today or maybe need more of?

[00:07:49] So this kind of stream of curiosity, I think builds a great rapport.

[00:07:55] And the focus when I think about the third part of this conversation

[00:08:00] is what do you do with that information you just received?

[00:08:04] Because trust then is built to say, you know what, Ricardo,

[00:08:07] I'm so glad you shared all this with me today.

[00:08:11] What I'm going to do is go back to my team at the office

[00:08:14] and we're going to go through all of this data

[00:08:16] and we're going to come up with some strategies

[00:08:19] and we're going to come back to you in the next two weeks,

[00:08:22] two weeks and talk to you about what we can accomplish,

[00:08:26] what they did this year, next year

[00:08:28] and maybe the things that we can't, but keep your promise.

[00:08:32] And so what the store team does is then say, wow, I'm so glad Ron came today

[00:08:37] and listened and like heard what we had to say, didn't judge it.

[00:08:41] That's where you use empathy because it's really quick to say,

[00:08:44] well, I don't understand why you don't get that or why you can't do this.

[00:08:48] You just need to do it.

[00:08:50] And empathy helps you ask more questions

[00:08:54] and put yourself in that place of,

[00:08:57] well, how are they experiencing the world and their business

[00:09:01] and their customer and their team?

[00:09:04] What do they need to do better?

[00:09:06] How curious can I be?

[00:09:07] And what do I do with that information?

[00:09:09] For me, that's how you build rapport.

[00:09:13] And I would say the same thing about stores.

[00:09:17] There's, I think, often what I discovered when I became

[00:09:20] a vice president of stores is there's also

[00:09:23] misinformation at the store level about what people at corporate do.

[00:09:28] And so there's this idea of, well,

[00:09:31] you know, whether it's product, whether it's resources,

[00:09:34] whether it's payroll, whether it's operational efficiencies,

[00:09:37] maintenance, I mean, the list goes on.

[00:09:40] Sometimes there's this judgment that happens in stores about corporate.

[00:09:46] And so you make assumptions that they can do better

[00:09:49] or should be doing more or should be spending more money

[00:09:52] or should be buying product differently.

[00:09:54] And my, you know, kind of advice or thought processes here

[00:09:59] will use the same pillars and say,

[00:10:02] well, how do people in corporate?

[00:10:03] What's their experience today?

[00:10:06] And maybe there's been headcount reduction in the office.

[00:10:09] Maybe there have been budget cuts.

[00:10:10] Maybe there have been other things that are restricting their ability

[00:10:15] to give me the things that I may need to drive my business.

[00:10:18] So how do I imagine the corporate teams are feeling?

[00:10:21] And then think, be curious.

[00:10:23] Like, well, how can I ask great questions to get what I need?

[00:10:29] And the focus is how can I then deliver on the result

[00:10:33] that I'm expected to deliver with full insight into information?

[00:10:37] And where that really showed up for me is, you know,

[00:10:40] as a vice president of stores and traveled

[00:10:44] as much as I possibly could, listened.

[00:10:46] I really did try to act, but sometimes it's actually going back

[00:10:50] and saying, I hear you, but we can't do that.

[00:10:53] And here's why or, you know,

[00:10:56] and because I ran a multi brand fashion business,

[00:11:01] every store has a list of things that they

[00:11:04] brands that they want to sell, sizes that they need,

[00:11:06] colors that they want, you know,

[00:11:08] but the product is the number one conversation always.

[00:11:12] But it's so complicated when you say

[00:11:16] you start talking about brands that you could sell in certain locations,

[00:11:20] inventory levels, sell through numbers, margin conversations,

[00:11:24] kind of restrictions on merchandising.

[00:11:26] So it becomes an education process back to the field and say,

[00:11:31] well, I hear you and I'm really curious about why that needs to happen.

[00:11:36] And let me just talk to you a little bit about what buying,

[00:11:39] planning and merchandising need and how that impacts your business.

[00:11:43] So I think it's our responsibility as leaders to be bridging the gap

[00:11:48] through education and through conversation.

[00:11:53] And it's not a one side fits all, it's very much a

[00:11:57] let's try to solve for the best of our abilities by using

[00:12:01] empathy, curiosity and focus on both sides.

[00:12:04] Yeah, I love the way you describe that.

[00:12:07] And one of the things I'm immediately comes to my mind

[00:12:10] is I'm listening to you, Ron, describe the process behind this.

[00:12:13] Is it really what you're doing?

[00:12:15] And I think of it as what's the outcome of this.

[00:12:17] You're actually presenting to your store teams, for example,

[00:12:20] that corporate doesn't just view you as an endpoint,

[00:12:23] but that you're actually part of the business.

[00:12:26] So there's that combination of what you said at the beginning

[00:12:30] to you're asking what their experience is.

[00:12:33] You're acknowledging what they've told you, not dismissing it

[00:12:36] because you don't think it should be that way, right?

[00:12:38] Which I think is a common perception that I think stores have

[00:12:41] about corporate that they'll just dismiss what we say,

[00:12:43] because they don't think it should be that way.

[00:12:45] You're acknowledging it.

[00:12:46] But then you're also recognizing that whether you can

[00:12:49] or can't do something about it, you're still closing the loop

[00:12:52] and making sure that if there's a reason why you can't,

[00:12:54] you're explaining what that reason is.

[00:12:56] You're not just again, dismissing it out of hand

[00:12:58] and saying it's not important, which just makes this team

[00:13:01] feel like they're not being heard, even if you did acknowledge it.

[00:13:03] You're also recognizing that we're trying to see

[00:13:06] what we can do about it, but maybe we can do something,

[00:13:08] maybe we can't.

[00:13:09] And if we can, wonderful.

[00:13:10] Here's how we together resolve that challenge or whatever

[00:13:13] that issue might be.

[00:13:15] And I think that is probably the way I look at it as

[00:13:18] if you're a member of that store team, you come away feeling

[00:13:21] that I'm not just this unit of labor that the brand is

[00:13:24] is benefiting from.

[00:13:26] We're actually part of a whole, we're part of the whole

[00:13:28] business and the brand together.

[00:13:30] And that takes great intention on both sides.

[00:13:33] It takes intention from and eliminating some of the assumptions

[00:13:38] about what people do and why they do it and not judge

[00:13:42] that someone else's job is harder or easier than yours.

[00:13:46] Because everyone's role is important, whether it's in part

[00:13:50] time, you know, a new hire in the store or someone that holds

[00:13:54] an executive position, everyone's role is important.

[00:13:57] They just have a different different needs at different times

[00:14:01] for the business.

[00:14:02] And so I will look at that and say, actually a new hire

[00:14:05] whose first day is on the floor today is interacting with

[00:14:09] the customer that the company just spent thousands of dollars

[00:14:14] marketing to get them to walk into the store.

[00:14:18] And that customer's experience now is determined by this

[00:14:22] person who's first day on the job is today.

[00:14:25] And so whether you are the CML company who just

[00:14:29] signed off on a multimillion dollar budget to drive

[00:14:31] traffic or I'm the part time person on my first day,

[00:14:35] the ultimate goal is that that customer has an incredible

[00:14:39] experience.

[00:14:40] And just so happens that that customer that you just

[00:14:43] spent money on to get into the store is engaged with a new hire.

[00:14:47] And so we can't say one is more important because the

[00:14:50] customer could have this incredible experience and like

[00:14:53] we got I met Casey, she showed me all these things

[00:14:56] that she loves and she told me it was her first day

[00:14:59] and she asked for my patience while we went through the

[00:15:01] journey, but she was incredible.

[00:15:03] And I love this brand and I can't wait to come back

[00:15:06] and see Casey again.

[00:15:07] That's a really good outcome or the opposite could happen.

[00:15:12] I don't need to describe that, but I think that there's

[00:15:14] there's this sense of if you treat everyone with

[00:15:19] empathy and kindness, you recognize that everyone's

[00:15:22] role is important.

[00:15:23] They just have different purposes.

[00:15:26] Yeah, I think acknowledging that every single

[00:15:30] person who works for you out of brand

[00:15:34] is your consumer, an advocate in the community.

[00:15:40] You know, nobody, no matter what company people

[00:15:44] apply to work at, people typically apply to

[00:15:48] companies that they like, love or are inspired by

[00:15:53] and that bad experience of working there, the

[00:15:56] bad experience of communication, the bad experience

[00:15:59] of like not feeling supportive.

[00:16:02] That loses you a customer, their family, their

[00:16:05] friends. It permeates that this bad experience

[00:16:10] happened with this brand.

[00:16:12] And I know because I literally work for them.

[00:16:15] They're terrible and like you can't really recover

[00:16:18] from that. And I almost feel like part of

[00:16:21] like the hiring process and managing those teams.

[00:16:24] It is PR in a lot of ways.

[00:16:27] Like this is your you have to take it super serious

[00:16:31] because it's worse than you know, you have all

[00:16:33] the social media and things like that.

[00:16:34] And just like this is a customer at the end of

[00:16:38] the day. It's true.

[00:16:39] I would even take that further back, Casey.

[00:16:41] It actually starts when someone's interested in

[00:16:43] working there. Yeah.

[00:16:45] You know, which is part of what we're not here

[00:16:47] to speak about.

[00:16:47] Awesome. But the idea here is that their

[00:16:51] likelihood of staying with a brand actually starts

[00:16:54] before they're even hired.

[00:16:56] When that was during the journey of interviews or

[00:16:59] lack of interviews, lack of follow up or

[00:17:01] incredible follow up, all of that creates

[00:17:04] impressions that OK, great, I get the job,

[00:17:07] but you just tortured me for a month to get

[00:17:10] here. Right. Or oh my gosh, like I have this

[00:17:14] I met these great people.

[00:17:15] I can't wait for day one and I'll go back

[00:17:18] to my example. OK, so you you created an

[00:17:22] experience of an interview and an on-boarding

[00:17:25] that was so good that that customer that I

[00:17:28] just described that walked in that the company

[00:17:30] spent money on engages with me and I have

[00:17:33] an incredible experience.

[00:17:35] And then the opposite can be very true.

[00:17:37] So I think that I agree with you, Casey.

[00:17:40] It's it's every touch point for every

[00:17:43] brand is about an experience and whatever

[00:17:47] that means for the future of a brand,

[00:17:49] the really important moments that we can't

[00:17:52] put into silos, they're all connected.

[00:17:56] They're all important and every person in

[00:18:00] this kind of ecosystem of retail play

[00:18:04] really important roles.

[00:18:06] Yeah, I think that's a great point about how

[00:18:09] that experience starts from the moment

[00:18:11] they are being recruited in that hiring

[00:18:13] process. I hadn't thought of it until you

[00:18:15] just hearing you say it that if the

[00:18:17] least that hiring experience is already

[00:18:20] tortuous, then you've just set the stage.

[00:18:23] No, it's a strong word, but I but I actually

[00:18:26] hear those candidates to know that

[00:18:28] I understand a valid word.

[00:18:29] Yeah, I agree. I think so.

[00:18:31] I'm just thinking back to even I remember

[00:18:33] in some retail jobs, I had the same thing

[00:18:35] that, you know, it was not a pleasant

[00:18:37] experience to do that.

[00:18:39] But you're right. It actually sets the

[00:18:41] stage for what your day one will be like

[00:18:43] before you even get to day one.

[00:18:45] And I think in that sense, right, it's

[00:18:48] wise for brands to think of, you know,

[00:18:50] from the marketing point of view,

[00:18:51] brands like to look at influencers'

[00:18:54] right to promote products.

[00:18:55] But at the end of the day, they should

[00:18:56] really be thinking that, well, you

[00:18:58] have an entire team of influencers

[00:19:00] at your store that work day in, day out.

[00:19:02] Because like you said earlier, however

[00:19:05] expensive a campaign you may have run

[00:19:07] to drive customers to go into the

[00:19:10] stores or walk through the door,

[00:19:12] well, the very next point of influence

[00:19:13] they're going to have is likely to be

[00:19:14] that store team member who they talk to

[00:19:17] first.

[00:19:18] Yep.

[00:19:19] Yeah, it's word of mouth is very

[00:19:21] powerful tool for marketing.

[00:19:23] And I feel that the most

[00:19:26] the best way to get that word

[00:19:28] of mouth marketing is literally through

[00:19:31] your employees because that is, you

[00:19:33] know, 90 percent of like friends and

[00:19:36] family that they know you're happy

[00:19:38] at X brand.

[00:19:41] X company and that influences them

[00:19:43] more than a review online.

[00:19:46] Right.

[00:19:47] No, it's true.

[00:19:48] And social media just escalates that

[00:19:51] very quickly.

[00:19:52] And there are, there's a lot of

[00:19:54] TikTok and that don't paint

[00:19:57] retail in a positive light.

[00:19:58] And some of that is

[00:20:01] is dessert.

[00:20:03] And so I think we do have to do

[00:20:05] better.

[00:20:06] It's valuable information and it's

[00:20:08] valuable to think about again

[00:20:10] with empathy, how is like Canada

[00:20:12] experiencing how

[00:20:14] what is someone's first day on the

[00:20:15] job?

[00:20:16] And when I work at

[00:20:18] Apple and I mentioned this before,

[00:20:20] they still today use a very

[00:20:23] phrase that I think leans into

[00:20:25] empathy. That is, I don't know,

[00:20:28] let's find out.

[00:20:29] And it's common language for

[00:20:31] them. And it's OK to say, you

[00:20:33] know what, I have no idea what

[00:20:34] you're talking about.

[00:20:35] But I'm going to find the best

[00:20:37] person to solve this

[00:20:39] problem for you or to answer

[00:20:40] your question.

[00:20:41] And then instead of putting the

[00:20:42] pressure on you to be an

[00:20:44] expert at everything, which

[00:20:46] we do, it's OK to

[00:20:48] say, I don't know.

[00:20:50] But I'm going to find someone that

[00:20:51] does and we're going to make sure

[00:20:53] that you leave this building

[00:20:55] the best possible experience.

[00:20:56] And that may not be for me.

[00:20:58] And that is that

[00:21:01] takes pressure off of store

[00:21:03] teams.

[00:21:04] And so the same going back

[00:21:06] to your original question, how do

[00:21:08] we bridge the gap?

[00:21:09] You bridge the gap by not

[00:21:10] expecting everyone to be an expert

[00:21:12] at everything.

[00:21:13] You bridge the gap by saying we

[00:21:15] have incredible salespeople, but

[00:21:17] incredible salespeople are not

[00:21:18] always good at doing markdowns.

[00:21:20] Incredible salespeople.

[00:21:21] Casey knows this from her other

[00:21:23] work. Great salespeople are

[00:21:25] really good with people, but

[00:21:26] they may not be the best at

[00:21:28] tasks.

[00:21:29] And you have great people who

[00:21:30] are really good at task who

[00:21:32] are terrified to speak to a

[00:21:33] customer.

[00:21:34] You can have both and that's

[00:21:35] perfectly it's welcome.

[00:21:38] And that's how you have great

[00:21:39] hiring.

[00:21:40] And that kind of

[00:21:42] idea of everyone in retail should

[00:21:44] be good at everything is

[00:21:47] is a false narratives, I believe.

[00:21:50] Yes, there are certain people

[00:21:51] who would never invite back to

[00:21:53] doing inventory.

[00:21:57] It would probably be me, which

[00:21:58] is why I was like, oh,

[00:22:00] where's the food?

[00:22:02] Like who's doing the catering

[00:22:03] tonight?

[00:22:04] I would do everything I could

[00:22:05] to get into it.

[00:22:07] But I'm just like seriously

[00:22:08] wanted it eight times and it's

[00:22:10] still not the same number.

[00:22:13] Go have a beer and

[00:22:14] then go home.

[00:22:18] It's the same.

[00:22:19] That's why you surround yourself

[00:22:20] with great people. I had great

[00:22:22] ops people out there like Ron,

[00:22:23] you don't have to come tonight.

[00:22:24] It's fine.

[00:22:25] I'm like, cool.

[00:22:28] Well, I think on that super

[00:22:29] interesting note, we've come to

[00:22:31] the end of this segment.

[00:22:33] Ron, thanks so much for joining

[00:22:34] us and sharing your insights on

[00:22:36] how to improve those lines of

[00:22:37] communication.

[00:22:39] Thank you. Thanks, Ricardo.

[00:22:40] Thank you, Casey.

[00:22:42] Always such a pleasure.

[00:22:43] Always.

[00:22:44] I have to admit, I am such a

[00:22:46] Ron Thurston fan.

[00:22:48] No one manages to level set how

[00:22:50] store teams and corporate

[00:22:52] need to interact and acknowledge

[00:22:54] with each other for the benefit

[00:22:56] of the business.

[00:22:57] Yeah. And what Ron does best,

[00:22:58] honestly, is just advocate for

[00:23:00] store teams in a way that not

[00:23:01] only highlights why it's so

[00:23:02] important to listen and

[00:23:04] acknowledge what those teams

[00:23:05] are telling corporate, but he's

[00:23:06] been on both sides of this.

[00:23:07] So you truly can speak to the

[00:23:09] right way versus any number of

[00:23:11] wrong ways that corporate

[00:23:13] should handle store feedback.

[00:23:14] We absolutely love this segment

[00:23:16] with Ron. What a great way to wrap

[00:23:17] up our first season of the

[00:23:19] Blade to Greatness series.

[00:23:21] 100 percent.

[00:23:22] So with that, how about we move

[00:23:25] this episode along?

[00:23:26] Get right to our brilliant

[00:23:27] conversation with Nadia

[00:23:29] Guglio-Matti, chief

[00:23:30] customer officer

[00:23:32] of the Planet Mint Show.

[00:23:37] Welcome Nadia to the Retail

[00:23:41] Razor Show. We're honored to have

[00:23:42] you join us.

[00:23:44] Thank you so much.

[00:23:45] I'm happy to be here.

[00:23:46] We absolutely love talking about

[00:23:48] customer experience and how

[00:23:50] retailers and brands are

[00:23:51] leveraging technology to

[00:23:53] enhance that experience and

[00:23:55] hear how it impacts marketing.

[00:23:57] It's always amazing to have

[00:23:59] someone like yourself from a

[00:24:00] brand of the vitamin shop

[00:24:03] to share your insights and

[00:24:04] learnings with us.

[00:24:05] Nandi, why don't you fully

[00:24:07] introduce yourself, your role

[00:24:09] and mission to the organization

[00:24:11] and tell us a little bit about

[00:24:13] your journey leading up to

[00:24:15] the role at the vitamin shop.

[00:24:17] Sure. Yeah.

[00:24:18] So I am chief customer officer

[00:24:20] at the vitamin shop.

[00:24:21] I oversee the customer

[00:24:23] experience for the brand

[00:24:25] that includes marketing,

[00:24:27] how we acquire customers,

[00:24:29] our loyalty program,

[00:24:30] how we retain customers

[00:24:32] and delight them,

[00:24:33] our e-commerce site,

[00:24:35] how we develop omni,

[00:24:36] sort of an omni experience for

[00:24:38] our customers.

[00:24:39] And then also tracking,

[00:24:41] planning, customer data,

[00:24:43] a customer growth,

[00:24:45] all of that fun stuff when it

[00:24:47] comes to customer and data

[00:24:49] and measurement

[00:24:51] that kind of fits under my

[00:24:53] purview.

[00:24:54] I came to the vitamin shop

[00:24:55] nearly six years ago,

[00:24:56] which is amazing.

[00:24:57] I think it's probably my longest

[00:24:59] tenure anywhere.

[00:25:00] I definitely have a form

[00:25:02] of ADHD, so it's

[00:25:04] amazing to me that they've been

[00:25:05] able to hold me for so long.

[00:25:07] And it actually shows or says

[00:25:09] a lot about the brand,

[00:25:10] the culture,

[00:25:11] the roles I've been able to

[00:25:12] tackle that there's always an

[00:25:14] interesting problem that

[00:25:15] they've been able to put before

[00:25:16] me to solve,

[00:25:18] which is very exciting.

[00:25:19] And my current sort of mission

[00:25:21] is to focus in

[00:25:23] on that omni experience.

[00:25:24] So how do we remove friction

[00:25:25] from our customers?

[00:25:27] How they shop with us?

[00:25:27] How they find us?

[00:25:29] How we provide access

[00:25:31] to what we do best,

[00:25:32] which is providing information,

[00:25:35] education and innovation

[00:25:37] in supplements and sport

[00:25:38] supplements.

[00:25:39] I started in e-commerce.

[00:25:41] Some of my first role were in

[00:25:42] the beauty business, Estee Lauder.

[00:25:44] I was really lucky to get

[00:25:47] incredible training from

[00:25:49] some incredible brands like

[00:25:50] Lauder, Pfizer and L'Oreal

[00:25:53] in commerce and then moved

[00:25:54] into the advertising business

[00:25:56] where I've run social

[00:25:57] companies.

[00:25:59] I've worked in PR

[00:26:00] under the digital marketing

[00:26:02] lens.

[00:26:03] And what was exciting about my

[00:26:04] role at Vitaminshop is really

[00:26:05] pulling together a lot of this

[00:26:08] experience that I'd accumulated

[00:26:09] over time and bring it

[00:26:11] all under one house and

[00:26:13] providing kind of the best of

[00:26:15] breed learnings that I'd

[00:26:17] accumulated to within a brand.

[00:26:19] So I've done kind of brand

[00:26:21] agency and then back to brand

[00:26:22] and it's been a really great

[00:26:24] journey for me.

[00:26:26] It's a fascinating journey.

[00:26:27] I'm really interested to

[00:26:29] hear how you're applying that

[00:26:30] to areas like the customer

[00:26:32] experience both in store

[00:26:33] online. It sounds like you're

[00:26:35] obviously responsible for the

[00:26:36] whole shopper journey for

[00:26:38] Vitaminshop or from digital to

[00:26:39] in person and everywhere in

[00:26:41] between.

[00:26:42] And maybe a good place to

[00:26:44] start.

[00:26:45] How do you look at that

[00:26:46] aspect of it? You know,

[00:26:47] connecting the digital

[00:26:48] experiences that your customers

[00:26:50] have to that in store

[00:26:51] experience?

[00:26:52] Yeah, we are.

[00:26:54] I am obsessed about

[00:26:56] customer behaviors.

[00:26:57] I'm definitely geek out in

[00:26:59] data and what the data tells

[00:27:01] us about the customers.

[00:27:02] That's not just data to it's

[00:27:03] also anecdotes from customers.

[00:27:05] We do rigorous

[00:27:08] on the bus studies surveys,

[00:27:10] talk to our customers.

[00:27:12] I go into stores frequently

[00:27:14] to really understand how

[00:27:15] customers want to shop with

[00:27:16] us.

[00:27:17] That's where we start.

[00:27:19] And with that and it's

[00:27:20] evolved tremendously over

[00:27:22] the past five years with

[00:27:25] four years really with COVID

[00:27:27] pre-COVID during COVID

[00:27:28] post-COVID.

[00:27:29] Our customers have gone through

[00:27:30] a lot of changes and we just

[00:27:32] kept up with them.

[00:27:33] So it's really led by data

[00:27:35] anecdotes from customers

[00:27:36] speaking to customers that

[00:27:37] helps guide how do we

[00:27:39] want to stay up with

[00:27:41] them or keep pace with them

[00:27:42] but also perhaps predict

[00:27:44] where they might want to go

[00:27:46] next in terms of their

[00:27:47] shopping experience with us

[00:27:49] or how they want to access

[00:27:50] our products.

[00:27:51] But you know, that

[00:27:53] kind of center of customer

[00:27:55] and the idea that customer

[00:27:56] really leads the way is

[00:27:58] really critical.

[00:27:59] How do you look at customer

[00:28:01] feedback?

[00:28:02] As you said, a couple of

[00:28:02] interesting things there that I

[00:28:03] love hearing that you take the

[00:28:05] time to visit stores and

[00:28:06] understand what customers are

[00:28:08] doing. We hear so often from

[00:28:10] retail brands that have an

[00:28:11] experience in mind and they

[00:28:13] kind of organize and design

[00:28:15] around that. But I haven't

[00:28:16] necessarily heard what

[00:28:17] customers directly feel about

[00:28:19] those experiences.

[00:28:20] So how do you take in that

[00:28:21] customer feedback?

[00:28:23] It's you know, it's

[00:28:24] everything from we do

[00:28:26] we get reporting.

[00:28:28] I read reporting on a weekly

[00:28:29] basis from our stores

[00:28:31] written by the store managers

[00:28:33] about what they're hearing from

[00:28:34] customers. So it starts there

[00:28:35] and you kind of have to take

[00:28:37] some things with a grain

[00:28:38] of salt because it gets very

[00:28:39] weedy and you have to make

[00:28:40] sure that you don't get

[00:28:42] stuck in an idea that perhaps

[00:28:43] is too niche as opposed to

[00:28:45] appealing to the broad

[00:28:47] side of customers that you

[00:28:47] have. So it's a little bit

[00:28:49] layered with what are the

[00:28:51] customer saying every week on

[00:28:52] the ground? What do we see

[00:28:55] in the data and we

[00:28:57] rigorously do again weekly

[00:29:00] and then quarterly data

[00:29:01] crunches around what our

[00:29:03] customers are doing and how

[00:29:04] they're behaving? What are we

[00:29:06] seeing in the industry?

[00:29:07] I'm part of NRF executive

[00:29:09] councils both digital marketing

[00:29:11] that's very helpful to look at

[00:29:13] what is the sort of broader

[00:29:15] industry data telling us as

[00:29:17] well. We're also part of IAB

[00:29:19] which is also very helpful in

[00:29:22] getting a sense of where

[00:29:23] things are going with

[00:29:24] customers. And then we do

[00:29:25] these yearly assessments. All

[00:29:28] of that really brings it

[00:29:29] together and a lot of it is

[00:29:30] testing. You know, we at the

[00:29:32] vitamin shop we do test and

[00:29:33] fail sometimes. We try ideas

[00:29:35] that don't always work or we

[00:29:37] see trends and we jump on

[00:29:38] them and sometimes things

[00:29:39] don't work. And I think we

[00:29:41] do a really good job of

[00:29:43] trying to putting something

[00:29:44] in motion. We try and if it

[00:29:46] doesn't work, we're okay. We

[00:29:47] move on and that has

[00:29:49] provided for us kind of

[00:29:51] rapid learning and the

[00:29:52] ability to move with our

[00:29:53] customers. We're okay with

[00:29:57] doing things and succeeding

[00:29:58] but also doing things and

[00:29:59] trying things out and they

[00:30:01] don't succeed. And that can

[00:30:01] be anything as small as a new

[00:30:03] advertising platform to

[00:30:05] building a product that we

[00:30:06] try to launch and market to

[00:30:08] a new tech sort of solution.

[00:30:10] A great example is we

[00:30:12] redid our checkout page on

[00:30:13] our website. We're so excited

[00:30:15] and it wasn't working. It

[00:30:16] wasn't doing what it was

[00:30:17] supposed to. It was very

[00:30:18] clear. And there's so many

[00:30:20] great technologies out there

[00:30:21] today that can help you

[00:30:22] track how consumers are

[00:30:23] going through your site and

[00:30:25] where they're stuck. And we

[00:30:26] immediately made changes and

[00:30:28] got the results we needed. So

[00:30:29] we're okay with looking at

[00:30:31] ourselves and saying, okay,

[00:30:32] this didn't work as we

[00:30:33] thought it did. Let's keep

[00:30:35] iterating. And that that's

[00:30:36] helpful as a specialty

[00:30:39] company. It's really

[00:30:40] critical for us to be

[00:30:41] that nimble. The nimble

[00:30:43] list because we can't

[00:30:45] necessarily compete with some

[00:30:46] of the big boxes and the

[00:30:48] tech investments they have,

[00:30:49] but we can certainly

[00:30:50] compete with them and how

[00:30:51] nimble we are, how fast we

[00:30:52] can be when we go to market,

[00:30:54] how quickly we can change to

[00:30:56] stay in front of the customer.

[00:30:57] And that really has sort of

[00:30:59] helped us a lot, especially

[00:31:01] during like pre post COVID.

[00:31:05] As your obviously vitamin

[00:31:07] shop is a brand known for

[00:31:09] being the health and wellness

[00:31:10] space. And I think you're

[00:31:12] certainly recognized for

[00:31:13] having story teams that are

[00:31:15] really well trained and

[00:31:16] knowledgeable about products

[00:31:17] that help customers. How do

[00:31:18] you stay ahead of that

[00:31:20] curve? Because there I think

[00:31:21] it's fair to say that there's

[00:31:22] there's been a lot of changing

[00:31:23] trends over the years in this

[00:31:25] space. And as you mentioned

[00:31:26] particularly pre post COVID,

[00:31:27] a lot of the consumer views

[00:31:29] on on this space have

[00:31:31] changed. How do you stay

[00:31:32] ahead of that curve?

[00:31:33] So for we do for health

[00:31:36] and we call them health

[00:31:37] enthusiasts. So those are

[00:31:38] employees in stores. We

[00:31:40] take a lot of time to keep

[00:31:42] them educated and the folks

[00:31:44] that work in our stores or

[00:31:45] want to work in our stores

[00:31:46] typically come from a

[00:31:48] background where they're

[00:31:49] passionate about health and

[00:31:50] wellness. Sometimes they're

[00:31:51] even influencers themselves on

[00:31:53] social platforms, they might

[00:31:55] be trainers. We also have

[00:31:57] some younger employees who are

[00:31:58] also getting nutritionist

[00:32:00] degrees or things like that.

[00:32:01] They're typically hungry for

[00:32:03] the space that we are in,

[00:32:05] which is amazing. So they are

[00:32:06] curious about the supplements

[00:32:09] ingredients or the trends.

[00:32:11] And that's very helpful. We

[00:32:13] provide a lot of educational

[00:32:14] data. We work closely with

[00:32:16] our third party vendors to

[00:32:17] gather their data. We invite

[00:32:21] a lot of their experts into

[00:32:23] our stores. So it's really about

[00:32:25] access of information. We also

[00:32:27] require that our folks who

[00:32:29] work in the store to get

[00:32:31] ingest a certain amount of

[00:32:32] information to keep up with

[00:32:34] new products or changes. And

[00:32:36] then we also are very

[00:32:37] rigorous about quality within

[00:32:39] our own products, which makes

[00:32:41] our own health enthusiasts

[00:32:43] believe in what we're doing.

[00:32:44] So we do a lot of testing on

[00:32:46] third party products. We test

[00:32:48] our own products that we bring

[00:32:50] to market private label products

[00:32:51] rigorously and that quality

[00:32:53] control quality of

[00:32:55] information. We also are very

[00:32:58] rigorous about what we say in

[00:32:59] market. So we will we work

[00:33:01] very closely with our legal

[00:33:02] team to make sure that what

[00:33:04] we tell our customers is what

[00:33:06] we can say and is backed up

[00:33:08] if we're going to say

[00:33:09] something is probably backed

[00:33:10] up by research or we're not

[00:33:12] going to say it. And that

[00:33:13] provides a level of trust

[00:33:15] from both the folks who

[00:33:16] work in our stores and what

[00:33:17] they're saying. They trust that

[00:33:18] we're giving them good

[00:33:19] information and that we're

[00:33:21] educating, but it also provides

[00:33:22] a level of trust of our

[00:33:24] customers as well.

[00:33:26] And information is I think one

[00:33:28] of the primary content

[00:33:29] strategies right is really

[00:33:31] understanding the nutrition

[00:33:34] and supplements. When we think

[00:33:36] of the competitive

[00:33:36] landscape of the health

[00:33:39] and nutrition supplement

[00:33:40] retailers, what consumer

[00:33:43] centric initiatives or

[00:33:45] innovation has a vitamin shop

[00:33:46] implemented recently that you

[00:33:49] think is stands out to build

[00:33:52] stronger connections and just

[00:33:54] with your customer base.

[00:33:56] Yeah, so I think there's a

[00:33:58] handful of things one on our

[00:34:00] healthy awards side. Well, it's

[00:34:02] not quite I think the

[00:34:03] direction you were going in

[00:34:04] you know the relationship with

[00:34:06] our customers. There's a value

[00:34:08] exchange there with

[00:34:08] customers right? And the

[00:34:11] value exchange that we've

[00:34:12] typically had is is

[00:34:13] financial. We've evolved that

[00:34:15] where the value exchange is

[00:34:17] more behavioral where we were

[00:34:19] word or customers for behavior,

[00:34:21] whether they're filling out

[00:34:22] surveys or giving us

[00:34:23] information. We do this through

[00:34:25] the lens of our healthy awards

[00:34:26] program. So you could fill out

[00:34:28] a survey and get 10 points.

[00:34:30] You could go to our TikTok

[00:34:31] page and get some more

[00:34:33] points. And that's really

[00:34:34] helpful for us. We got a lot

[00:34:35] of data information first

[00:34:37] party data from our customers

[00:34:38] okay, and they got value

[00:34:40] back. So that's one it's

[00:34:42] that's been incredibly

[00:34:43] successful in helping to build

[00:34:44] basket size, retention and

[00:34:47] stickiness with our customers

[00:34:48] in this sort of very simple

[00:34:49] way of unlocking that new

[00:34:51] relationship with our

[00:34:52] customers. And then on the

[00:34:53] other side another thing

[00:34:54] we've been doing as I

[00:34:55] mentioned earlier, we have

[00:34:57] an incredible amount of a

[00:34:59] health enthusiasts in our

[00:35:00] stores who are influencers

[00:35:02] in their own right,

[00:35:03] incredibly passionate and

[00:35:04] known. So we've created a

[00:35:05] better mature squad where

[00:35:07] they are actually almost

[00:35:09] advertising or not over half

[00:35:11] they're talking about

[00:35:12] products, they're engaging

[00:35:14] with their their audience

[00:35:16] and it's often it's sizable

[00:35:17] and releasing some of that

[00:35:19] information on our behalf

[00:35:21] because we find that with

[00:35:23] creators, especially creators

[00:35:25] who work for us, that's the

[00:35:27] best way of connecting with

[00:35:29] customers. It's a very

[00:35:31] trusted way rather than

[00:35:32] just having a brand speak on

[00:35:33] the sub right we are and

[00:35:35] and so on and so forth. So

[00:35:36] that's another thing that

[00:35:37] we've done and unlocked,

[00:35:40] which has been very useful and

[00:35:42] successful.

[00:35:43] Yeah, having having a

[00:35:44] workforce set is passionate

[00:35:45] about the company and

[00:35:48] space that's hard to replace.

[00:35:50] Yeah, as I said earlier,

[00:35:52] I've been with a bunch of

[00:35:53] a long time and then the

[00:35:54] culture we definitely

[00:35:56] believe in our brand. We

[00:35:58] love what we're doing for

[00:36:00] customers, providing

[00:36:02] sort of a guide so that

[00:36:04] our customers can achieve

[00:36:06] their best self in terms of

[00:36:07] health and wellness. And

[00:36:08] it's it's something we really

[00:36:10] stand behind and it's

[00:36:11] infectious. Everybody we

[00:36:12] feel really strongly about

[00:36:14] wanting to provide that guidance

[00:36:16] and access to the best

[00:36:18] supplements that are in

[00:36:20] the market.

[00:36:20] And it really sounds like you've

[00:36:22] built a lot of strong

[00:36:24] customer loyalty from that.

[00:36:25] And also even with employee

[00:36:27] loyalties, I think I'm from

[00:36:28] both sides of it, you can see

[00:36:30] I think the differences in

[00:36:31] hearing you describe it on how

[00:36:33] that helps grow the

[00:36:34] business and grow the

[00:36:35] relationship with customers.

[00:36:38] One thing I'm curious

[00:36:40] what your thoughts are. How do

[00:36:40] you look at balancing

[00:36:42] acquiring new customers and

[00:36:45] versus the kind of

[00:36:46] initiatives you're doing to

[00:36:47] nurture those existing ones

[00:36:49] and create longer, greater

[00:36:50] lifetime customer value?

[00:36:52] How do you look at the

[00:36:54] and balancing that and how do

[00:36:55] you invest in one versus the

[00:36:56] other or both at the same

[00:36:57] time?

[00:36:58] Yeah, it's that's a really

[00:36:59] good question because there

[00:37:00] is always a tension between

[00:37:02] how much you spend on your

[00:37:03] current customers and

[00:37:04] marketing and we're very

[00:37:06] you know, efficiency is

[00:37:07] everything and marketing as

[00:37:08] much as I do. Well, it's

[00:37:09] certainly about being

[00:37:10] creative, but it's also about

[00:37:12] being very efficient.

[00:37:13] Efficiency is everything.

[00:37:15] And we do look at again,

[00:37:17] going back to data, we look

[00:37:19] at our customer lifetime

[00:37:20] value to understand how many

[00:37:22] new customers do we need to

[00:37:23] have in a year to sustain

[00:37:24] our business? So we do go

[00:37:26] through that rigor and

[00:37:28] analytical rigor to really

[00:37:29] get down to the weeds.

[00:37:31] I also as a marketer don't

[00:37:32] expect that we're going to

[00:37:33] keep every customer. You're

[00:37:34] going to have those casual

[00:37:36] shoppers in your business

[00:37:38] and actually that's OK.

[00:37:39] That's a good thing. You need

[00:37:40] casual shoppers. You can't

[00:37:41] just have people that you

[00:37:43] retain, you're going to have

[00:37:44] people come in and out.

[00:37:45] They're casual and those

[00:37:45] casual shoppers are really

[00:37:46] critical. So we look at it

[00:37:48] in terms of you're going to

[00:37:49] have casual shoppers.

[00:37:51] You're going to have a core

[00:37:51] set of loyal shoppers

[00:37:53] that you're going to keep

[00:37:54] for a certain length of time

[00:37:56] and then we need a certain

[00:37:57] level of new and we really

[00:37:59] partner a lot with our

[00:38:00] third party brands to

[00:38:02] bring in the new because new

[00:38:04] customers really come to

[00:38:06] us for access on something

[00:38:07] they're not getting from

[00:38:09] their big boxes.

[00:38:10] It's either the innovation we

[00:38:11] provide the information as I

[00:38:13] mentioned before. I don't know

[00:38:15] what to take. It's so confusing,

[00:38:16] such a confusing space, new

[00:38:18] ingredients or even value

[00:38:20] through our private brands.

[00:38:22] So we work very closely with

[00:38:24] our private brands to market

[00:38:26] that value or innovation that

[00:38:28] we have internally with our

[00:38:29] brands and then we work

[00:38:31] very closely with our third

[00:38:32] party brands because they

[00:38:34] have a lot of innovation

[00:38:36] and rigor influencers.

[00:38:38] Often the owners of these

[00:38:40] third party brands are

[00:38:41] influencers and themselves

[00:38:42] have rich stories, background

[00:38:45] stories that are so exciting

[00:38:46] and unique and interesting.

[00:38:48] So partnering with them to

[00:38:50] help fuel that visibility

[00:38:53] of the vitamin shop and what we

[00:38:54] offer and then drive that

[00:38:56] new customer. And then we

[00:38:57] work on the retention piece.

[00:38:58] But as with most brands, we

[00:39:01] decide on the level of

[00:39:02] investment really based on

[00:39:04] what do I need to sustain

[00:39:05] the business this year.

[00:39:07] And we just went to this

[00:39:08] process where I looked at what

[00:39:09] do I need to sustain growth?

[00:39:12] And you know, how much do I

[00:39:13] need to invest in my current

[00:39:15] and we look at it every single

[00:39:17] year and dependent on the

[00:39:19] answer to that and the state

[00:39:21] of business or the state of

[00:39:22] customers are it is customer

[00:39:24] acquisition more difficult

[00:39:25] right now, which it is by

[00:39:26] the way, it's definitely got

[00:39:27] challenging post COVID.

[00:39:29] And you know, with squeezed

[00:39:31] wallets. So we look at,

[00:39:32] okay, well, I might have

[00:39:33] to invest more because

[00:39:35] customer acquisition has

[00:39:37] gone up and that means my

[00:39:38] investment level has to get a

[00:39:39] little bit higher.

[00:39:40] And you know, and then we

[00:39:42] work through that mix of where

[00:39:44] do you go to get those

[00:39:45] customers what's been working

[00:39:46] and all of that. So it's a

[00:39:47] good question. It's every

[00:39:48] year it changes. I will say

[00:39:50] it's never the same year to

[00:39:51] year of what we're

[00:39:52] investing where.

[00:39:53] How does your private

[00:39:56] brand strategy impact that?

[00:39:58] I mean, do you see do you

[00:39:59] end up just as you just

[00:40:01] mentioned, right? It may

[00:40:01] change from year to year.

[00:40:03] Do you see a lot of

[00:40:03] fluctuation and where you need

[00:40:05] to focus more on the private

[00:40:06] brands versus your third

[00:40:08] party brands? Or is it always

[00:40:09] kind of in a balance?

[00:40:10] I think always in the balance

[00:40:12] our third party brands are so

[00:40:13] important to us that

[00:40:14] relationship that new

[00:40:15] customer with they offer

[00:40:17] they're really critical to

[00:40:18] our success. So I would say

[00:40:20] it's a balance with our

[00:40:21] private brands, you know,

[00:40:23] our customers will come to

[00:40:25] us for very specific things

[00:40:26] within our private brand.

[00:40:28] And there's certain there are

[00:40:29] some of our private brands

[00:40:31] that are great new customer

[00:40:32] drivers. We have one brand

[00:40:33] called BodyTech.

[00:40:35] There's a series under BodyTech

[00:40:36] from a sports supplement

[00:40:37] perspective. It's a great brand.

[00:40:39] It drives new customer

[00:40:40] acquisition. We do invest in

[00:40:42] that brand from a new customer

[00:40:44] acquisition perspective.

[00:40:45] So we look at which are the

[00:40:46] brands that are going to

[00:40:47] deliver new customer

[00:40:48] acquisition for us and which

[00:40:50] are the brands that are

[00:40:51] really more they sustain

[00:40:53] the current customers we have

[00:40:55] their more value items

[00:40:56] in our portfolio.

[00:40:58] And as our as a customer

[00:41:00] comes into our store, they

[00:41:01] discover those brands.

[00:41:02] So we kind of think of it that

[00:41:03] way, but it's not either or

[00:41:05] it's both because of how

[00:41:07] critical our third party

[00:41:09] brands are to us. And we have

[00:41:10] incredible partners in our

[00:41:13] third party brands were really

[00:41:14] lucky to they really give us

[00:41:16] so much access to them,

[00:41:17] their brands, a lot of what

[00:41:19] we're doing this year and

[00:41:21] next year is really thinking

[00:41:22] or working more locally.

[00:41:24] And we often get some of

[00:41:26] the ambassadors, founders to

[00:41:28] go visit stores.

[00:41:30] We've had lines outside of our

[00:41:31] stores to go meet somebody

[00:41:34] like Chris Bumstead.

[00:41:36] So these sorts of initiatives

[00:41:37] can only be fueled with that

[00:41:38] partnership.

[00:41:40] I always like to ask every

[00:41:42] marketer we talk to, you know,

[00:41:43] what your thoughts are on

[00:41:45] retail media networks.

[00:41:46] And is that something that as

[00:41:48] a brand, are you developing

[00:41:50] your own network?

[00:41:51] Are you working with other

[00:41:52] retail media networks?

[00:41:53] And because I could envision

[00:41:54] based on your especially the

[00:41:55] private brand strategy you

[00:41:57] have, you know, the need to

[00:41:58] be sort of looking at it from

[00:41:59] both sides.

[00:42:01] Yeah, we don't work with other

[00:42:02] retail media networks today,

[00:42:05] though I think that's where it's

[00:42:06] going. I think right now the

[00:42:07] retail media network world is

[00:42:09] very fragmented and there's a

[00:42:10] lot of if you if you look

[00:42:12] at the updates in the news,

[00:42:14] the challenge with a retailer

[00:42:16] having a retail media network is

[00:42:17] you need to talk to a

[00:42:18] different department, you need

[00:42:19] to gather new funds.

[00:42:20] This isn't your co-op dollars.

[00:42:22] It's a pretty rigorous

[00:42:23] investment to put it

[00:42:25] stand it up.

[00:42:26] So we haven't officially stood

[00:42:28] up kind of an end to end retail

[00:42:30] media network, though we do

[00:42:31] provide advertising opportunities

[00:42:33] for brands within our

[00:42:35] ecosystem.

[00:42:36] I think where it's going is

[00:42:37] that there's going to be a lot

[00:42:38] more retailers partnering

[00:42:40] together to offer access to

[00:42:42] a retail media network,

[00:42:43] especially smaller retailers

[00:42:45] that's where it's going to go

[00:42:46] because so we

[00:42:47] we actually we thought about it

[00:42:49] a lot last year.

[00:42:50] We're incredibly interested kind

[00:42:51] of a building out the end to

[00:42:53] end.

[00:42:54] We decided to pause a little

[00:42:55] bit because we were noticing

[00:42:56] the incredible amount of changes

[00:42:57] that were happening.

[00:42:59] You know, I'm sort of of the

[00:43:00] philosophy where we're a mid

[00:43:02] sized brand retailer,

[00:43:04] let the big guys

[00:43:06] lead the way and kind of pave

[00:43:08] the technology and then we'll

[00:43:09] jump on when things are a little

[00:43:11] bit more solidified.

[00:43:13] And I think we're going to give

[00:43:14] it a little bit more time before

[00:43:16] we build out the end to end

[00:43:18] because I think there's a lot

[00:43:19] of change that's still

[00:43:20] happening with

[00:43:22] where the those retail media

[00:43:23] network is going.

[00:43:24] But it's very exciting.

[00:43:25] We do have some things that we

[00:43:28] do do like we do our checkout

[00:43:30] page. We do allow

[00:43:32] ads from brands

[00:43:34] that customers are exposed to.

[00:43:36] So we do some things that are

[00:43:37] incredibly successful.

[00:43:38] We love it.

[00:43:39] It's a really great new revenue

[00:43:41] stream for us.

[00:43:43] But, you know, we're tiptoeing

[00:43:45] in to that arena because there

[00:43:47] is a technical investment there

[00:43:48] and an effort there

[00:43:50] and sort of an operational

[00:43:53] effort there.

[00:43:53] So we want to just make sure

[00:43:55] that we're setting it up in the

[00:43:56] right way and using the

[00:43:58] latest and greatest technologies

[00:44:00] before we jump in.

[00:44:00] But it's very exciting, as I

[00:44:02] said.

[00:44:02] Yeah. Speaking of latest and

[00:44:04] greatest technologies in

[00:44:05] transitioning to a headless

[00:44:07] commerce platform, what factors

[00:44:09] influence a vitamin shop's

[00:44:11] decision for that?

[00:44:12] And how has the shift

[00:44:14] empowered the company to

[00:44:16] provide a more seamless or

[00:44:18] personal shopping experience

[00:44:20] or not?

[00:44:22] Right?

[00:44:22] And sir, it's a great

[00:44:24] question.

[00:44:25] I think headless, especially for

[00:44:27] a business our size is critical

[00:44:29] because to be able to

[00:44:32] have more, I don't know how to

[00:44:33] the best analogy to be able to

[00:44:35] have a tech stack that is more

[00:44:36] like Lego blocks instead of one

[00:44:38] block is really useful.

[00:44:41] We can unsnap a technology

[00:44:44] that's not as useful for us or

[00:44:45] needs to evolve or change or

[00:44:47] something new is available in

[00:44:49] the market.

[00:44:50] We can snap that in versus

[00:44:52] having to change everything is

[00:44:53] incredibly powerful.

[00:44:55] So we're still

[00:44:57] finishing up some of our

[00:44:59] applications that where we've

[00:45:01] sort of have most of the Lego

[00:45:03] blocks in place where there's

[00:45:05] just some things we need to move

[00:45:06] on to them before we're fully

[00:45:08] kind of up and running,

[00:45:09] especially from a web

[00:45:10] perspective.

[00:45:11] So and what that does unlock

[00:45:13] for us, as you said, is that

[00:45:14] we can take advantage of

[00:45:16] improved personalization.

[00:45:18] We do a lot of personalization

[00:45:19] today in our CRM and other

[00:45:22] things, but it's really the end

[00:45:23] to end personalization that we're

[00:45:24] really excited about and

[00:45:26] meeting from from marketing to

[00:45:27] web or it's a unique personal

[00:45:29] one on one experience.

[00:45:31] So we're almost there and it's

[00:45:33] enabled through being

[00:45:34] being headless.

[00:45:36] You know, technology changes

[00:45:37] so much and your tech stack

[00:45:39] you constantly have to look at

[00:45:40] it.

[00:45:40] So headless just allows

[00:45:43] you to be a little bit more

[00:45:43] flexible so that you can take

[00:45:45] advantage of what else is in

[00:45:47] market.

[00:45:47] And it's hard because once you're

[00:45:49] in sometimes the bigger

[00:45:50] it's bigger legacy

[00:45:52] tech players, you're

[00:45:54] kind of armed and it's difficult

[00:45:56] to negotiate.

[00:45:57] You're armed into kind of fees

[00:45:59] because it's hard to change

[00:46:01] as a retailer, especially one

[00:46:03] like us.

[00:46:04] So headless gives us much more

[00:46:07] flexibility, a little bit more

[00:46:08] negotiating power.

[00:46:10] We can look more broadly across

[00:46:12] and take advantage of technology

[00:46:14] and where it's going.

[00:46:15] I'm super excited about

[00:46:17] where AI will more AI being

[00:46:19] embedded into some of the

[00:46:21] tech stack solutions we'll be

[00:46:22] using in the future as

[00:46:24] it's kind of maturing.

[00:46:26] And that will help us question

[00:46:28] is what are you most excited

[00:46:29] about?

[00:46:29] When we're excited about AI, I

[00:46:31] haven't quite seen it deliver

[00:46:33] everything to a retailer

[00:46:35] today.

[00:46:36] And I think with AI you have to

[00:46:37] be both proactive in

[00:46:39] where's my vendor going to take

[00:46:41] it. And you know, there's a

[00:46:42] couple of things we are

[00:46:42] certainly doing but also

[00:46:44] defensive on what does it

[00:46:46] mean for my business.

[00:46:47] So where our stance is like

[00:46:48] both defensive proactive, we're

[00:46:50] excited and also cautious

[00:46:52] because it does have implications

[00:46:53] for a retailer has implications

[00:46:56] for how a customer is going to

[00:46:58] use your website has implication

[00:46:59] for your own content.

[00:47:01] There's a lot of implications

[00:47:02] with AI but where

[00:47:04] the efficiency it's going to

[00:47:05] help unlock and improve

[00:47:07] customer experience potential

[00:47:09] is really exciting.

[00:47:11] But I haven't quite seen it

[00:47:13] fully come to fruition yet.

[00:47:15] You know, I think it's

[00:47:16] everybody was sort of like the

[00:47:17] shiny toy. Everyone was like

[00:47:18] wow, I think it will happen

[00:47:20] very quickly.

[00:47:21] For sure, we're going to start

[00:47:22] seeing more and more things

[00:47:23] embedded into into some of the

[00:47:25] offerings that we get from our

[00:47:27] retailers and that's already

[00:47:28] happening.

[00:47:29] So it's not not like it's not

[00:47:31] but it's at a slower pace maybe

[00:47:33] than everyone imagined.

[00:47:34] So

[00:47:36] yeah, very

[00:47:37] yeah.

[00:47:37] But I agree with them on

[00:47:38] probably one of the things I'm

[00:47:39] most excited about and that we

[00:47:41] are on on the show too is

[00:47:41] what all the different areas

[00:47:43] that AI can touch and how

[00:47:44] it's going to do that

[00:47:45] because I think you're right

[00:47:47] there's been a lot of

[00:47:47] experimentation.

[00:47:48] I think there have been some

[00:47:49] really interesting use cases

[00:47:51] somewhere maybe still needs to

[00:47:52] be further developed.

[00:47:53] So it's going to be really

[00:47:54] curious, I think to see where

[00:47:56] that leads in the coming year.

[00:47:57] Yeah, I agree.

[00:47:58] Yeah, I agree.

[00:47:59] I mean, I love technology.

[00:48:00] It's why you know, I started

[00:48:02] in digital as I said, I

[00:48:03] started in e-commerce.

[00:48:05] I love how

[00:48:07] it changes how consumers

[00:48:09] experience a brand or how

[00:48:11] you can communicate different.

[00:48:12] So much fun.

[00:48:13] It keeps me incredibly engaged,

[00:48:15] especially for somebody who

[00:48:17] maybe doesn't have the best

[00:48:18] attention span sometimes like me.

[00:48:20] It's it's so I'm super excited,

[00:48:22] but there are it is a cautious

[00:48:24] story, I think for retailers

[00:48:26] because they're it could

[00:48:28] offset some of the things

[00:48:29] that we're offering to customers

[00:48:31] is keeping up with that,

[00:48:32] making sure we're protected,

[00:48:33] thinking through what do we

[00:48:34] need to copyright, for example?

[00:48:37] And what should we experiment

[00:48:38] internally at a smaller scale

[00:48:40] so that we can kind of

[00:48:42] understand behavior.

[00:48:44] All of those things are going

[00:48:44] to be really important in the

[00:48:45] short term.

[00:48:47] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:48:48] Absolutely.

[00:48:49] Well, this has been an incredibly

[00:48:50] rich and fascinating discussion.

[00:48:52] Thank you so much for joining us

[00:48:53] today.

[00:48:54] Thank you.

[00:48:55] It's been a lot of fun.

[00:48:56] Thank you so much for the

[00:48:57] invitation.

[00:48:58] Oh, always I mean, I know

[00:49:00] I learned a lot from the

[00:49:01] discussion and I can't wait

[00:49:03] to see more of what you guys

[00:49:04] and your team are doing over at

[00:49:06] the vitamin shop.

[00:49:07] Thanks again so much.

[00:49:09] Thank you.

[00:49:10] Well, I think that's a wrap,

[00:49:11] Ricardo.

[00:49:12] It is.

[00:49:13] Thank you so much.

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[00:49:52] If you want to know more about

[00:49:53] what we talked about today,

[00:49:54] take a look at our show notes or

[00:49:56] handy links for more deeds.

[00:49:58] I'm your cohost Casey Golden.

[00:50:00] And if you'd like to connect

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[00:50:06] Ricardo underscore Belmar

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[00:50:18] I'm your host, Ricardo Belmar.

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