S3E19 – The Razor’s Edge – Season 3 Recap and Predictions Check-In

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to season three episode 19 of The Retail Razor Show.

[00:00:24] It's the season three finale episode on The Razor's Edge, and I'm your host Ricardo Belmar.

[00:00:30] I'm your co-host Casey Golden. Welcome to Retail's favorite podcast where we cut through

[00:00:35] the clutter to give you sharp insights on the retail industry and retail technology. It's

[00:00:41] the show for product junkies, commerce technologists, and everyone else in retail and retail tech

[00:00:46] alike. Welcome to the season three grand finale episode.

[00:00:50] Alright, Casey. So here's how we're going to roll today since this is a special episode

[00:00:56] to close out season three of the show. So first, we're going to check in on our top 10 predictions

[00:01:02] for 2023. And yeah, technically those were from season two. But now that we're very squarely

[00:01:08] into 2024, it's time we checked in to see what we got right, nailed it versus what we

[00:01:14] totally got wrong and completely missed the mark on.

[00:01:17] This is my favorite part. Yes, I am quite competitive. You better be keeping score

[00:01:22] on who's got more right than wrong. I'm feeling pretty good, but Ricardo, we come from two

[00:01:28] very different perspectives. And I think that's why everybody enjoys listening to us.

[00:01:33] I have to agree. I have to agree. Hopefully this won't get too ugly and too competitive,

[00:01:37] but good thing there's no audience to throw things at us though. So for the second

[00:01:41] part of the show, then after we get through that, we'll do a little bit of fan favorite

[00:01:46] reminiscing about our favorite parts of the season and maybe close it out by sharing

[00:01:51] a few choice previews for season four.

[00:01:53] Well, you did just give it away that there is going to be a season four, but season three

[00:01:59] did quite well. I guess we really are more than meets the eye.

[00:02:04] You did that on purpose, didn't you? Stealing my line.

[00:02:07] I did. All right. All right. All right. So let's just get started then and jump

[00:02:10] right into grading our top 10 predictions for 2023.

[00:02:16] So let's just run down the list starting with the first one. Casey, you're up first.

[00:02:20] That was private label taking over the shelves. Is this a you nailed it or

[00:02:25] missed the market prediction? I nailed it. Private label goods are increasingly

[00:02:30] dominating the retail shelves as consumers prioritize value and quality, prompting

[00:02:36] retailers to expand their in-house brands. This trend reflects a shift in consumer

[00:02:40] trust with white labels offering comparable or superior products at more

[00:02:46] competitive prices than traditional brand names.

[00:02:49] However, there are a number of manufacturers from China doing the same

[00:02:54] thing and consumers are going to need to become very savvy as the pendulum

[00:03:01] of trust will swing on a very thin line. Interesting. There will be many new

[00:03:07] brands that will be entering into the US market because we're not the only

[00:03:12] ones that saw this trend. Yeah. So everyone's going to start to become

[00:03:17] really smart, really soon on how to tell the difference between a genuine

[00:03:21] private label versus just a knockoff brand that's cheap. Yep.

[00:03:25] We've got to be a little bit smarter on what you see is not often times

[00:03:31] what you get these days in first. That's so true. That's so true.

[00:03:35] All right. And now it's your turn. Prediction number two was the retail

[00:03:40] media network evolution with B2B services growing out from ad services.

[00:03:46] Nailed it or missed the mark? Because if I don't know what you're going to say.

[00:03:50] Well, I mean, this has to be one easy one for me. This is totally nailed

[00:03:54] it because let's face it, retail media got even bigger and just

[00:03:58] sent out every way last year. I mean, some of the specific things I

[00:04:02] know I was predicting was a lot more in-store focus.

[00:04:05] I think a lot of that is there. It was talked about at NRF this month.

[00:04:09] It was talked about a grocery shop. I mean, it was all over the place

[00:04:12] about how that was the natural expansion, even connected TV and other

[00:04:15] digital mediums for being tied into the media network.

[00:04:19] And then the last piece I had in there, which Walmart's done it really well,

[00:04:22] I still think it's a trend, but I'm still going to call this one a win.

[00:04:26] And that was the B2B services growing out for that because

[00:04:29] it's the incremental revenue from these things is enough that retailers

[00:04:33] I think keep seeing more and more of them looking for this kind of

[00:04:37] revenue versus the transactional revenue they get from consumers

[00:04:40] because the margin is better.

[00:04:41] I mean, it's pretty incremental at this point.

[00:04:44] There's very low comp numbers.

[00:04:45] It's incremental revenue on the balance sheet, new revenue channels.

[00:04:49] I agree. All right.

[00:04:50] Prediction number three returns management.

[00:04:53] This one is yours too.

[00:04:55] Is was it a top investment?

[00:04:59] All right. So I may have slightly missed a little bit on this one.

[00:05:03] Maybe I can claim partial credit on the fact that

[00:05:06] it still certainly talked about a lot and it was a trendy thing.

[00:05:10] I mean, everybody was worried about returns management.

[00:05:12] I think the second half of my prediction was that it would really be a top

[00:05:16] IT investment helped by AI technology and that we'd see everybody spending

[00:05:20] money on trying to solve this.

[00:05:22] That part, I guess just didn't really I don't know.

[00:05:25] I don't think that one really happened.

[00:05:26] And I know plenty of vendors with really good solutions that help with this.

[00:05:30] But I don't think enough retailers as I thought would

[00:05:34] really made this a top IT investor.

[00:05:36] They invested a little bit in it, but it wasn't the top one.

[00:05:38] So I'll claim partial credit on this one.

[00:05:41] Yeah, I agree.

[00:05:43] It is a huge global problem.

[00:05:46] It is, but it's not a key KPI that I find.

[00:05:51] It comes up in general conversation when looking at the current state of the business.

[00:05:56] Everybody kinds to seem to leave the returns percentage off the deck as if it didn't exist.

[00:06:03] I don't think anybody wants to see it or own it.

[00:06:05] And I think for our listeners, it's very common for an e-commerce store to have between a 25

[00:06:11] and 40 percent online return rate.

[00:06:13] Yeah.

[00:06:14] I think this year maybe more of you guys should be carving out some dollars.

[00:06:19] I think it definitely is one of those people need to look at it a little bit more

[00:06:22] a little bit more attention on it.

[00:06:24] Prediction number four, store automation for frontline workers

[00:06:28] and store ops for a lower labor cost.

[00:06:31] All right, I'm going to make this one get another partial credit one.

[00:06:34] Mostly thanks to AI solutions.

[00:06:36] I've seen some retailers putting out there that helps make life better and easier

[00:06:40] automating a lot of the mundane tasks for frontline workers.

[00:06:43] But I think the original thought here was more about leveraging

[00:06:48] a lot of automation for when retailers can't hire enough

[00:06:53] people for their store teams.

[00:06:54] But it's not, I guess it's not 100 percent clear exactly what impact

[00:06:58] retailers are getting from that yet.

[00:07:00] It may be too soon for that for the ones that have done

[00:07:02] done some of these implementation.

[00:07:04] I still would claim there is enough of a labor shortage for most retailers

[00:07:07] that they need some of this automation help or AI help.

[00:07:11] But did that really save them in 2023 from a lack of having enough retail staff?

[00:07:17] Not sure that part of it really came true,

[00:07:19] which was the implied expectation from this prediction.

[00:07:22] So I think retailers are on the right path with that.

[00:07:24] The technology is there to help.

[00:07:26] It's a matter of time.

[00:07:27] I think it's just going to take longer maybe than my prediction

[00:07:30] claimed to have full impact.

[00:07:33] So I'll take half credit for that one.

[00:07:34] Yeah, I've seen more impact in grocery and training,

[00:07:39] onboarding, off-screen, not necessary,

[00:07:42] more or less so in fashion or apparel.

[00:07:46] Melkinitely, I think in order to really leverage AI.

[00:07:53] You got to know what these people do all day for their job.

[00:07:56] And I think that is going to be the biggest challenge

[00:07:59] to have understanding the context.

[00:08:01] Absolutely, yeah.

[00:08:02] And I think to see some IT people do some job shadows on the floor.

[00:08:07] Yep, I hear you.

[00:08:08] I think you're 100% on that one.

[00:08:10] I think we've had plenty of guests over the season

[00:08:12] who would agree with that statement and reinforced it plenty of times.

[00:08:16] All right, prediction number five was yours, Casey.

[00:08:19] BNPL by now, pay later, explodes even more.

[00:08:24] All right, so this is partial credit for me.

[00:08:26] Yeah, the growth was there.

[00:08:28] Holiday 2023, the real winner was by now pay later.

[00:08:32] Not any one retailer.

[00:08:34] Yeah.

[00:08:34] But it didn't really explode in the sense that regulators haven't

[00:08:38] really come after them yet and they're still going strong.

[00:08:42] Really, I really thought that the bubble would have burst by now.

[00:08:46] But we'll see.

[00:08:47] I think it got swept up a lot.

[00:08:49] Yeah, you got to, I guess you do get.

[00:08:52] Yeah, yeah.

[00:08:53] There was, I forget which one was it, a firm that maybe stumbled a little bit.

[00:08:57] But we had Rocham from Square who talked about after pay.

[00:09:00] They were seeing plenty of growth and things are going really well for them.

[00:09:03] And it helped fuel a lot for holiday.

[00:09:04] So, yeah, I guess the exploding part is true, maybe not 100% in the way

[00:09:09] predictive, but it was still because the growth is there.

[00:09:12] So you get partial credit for that one.

[00:09:15] All right, prediction number six, Casey.

[00:09:17] Oh, yeah.

[00:09:18] I'll mention that the younger generation and like Gen Z really like this

[00:09:23] buying out later and they don't have credit cards the way we do.

[00:09:27] That's true.

[00:09:28] That's so true, yeah.

[00:09:29] And well, I do find it interesting.

[00:09:32] It may be a bit more responsible than the way we charge everything on our credit card.

[00:09:37] Maybe that's the difference.

[00:09:38] Maybe that's the difference.

[00:09:39] Yeah.

[00:09:39] All right, prediction number six, Casey.

[00:09:41] It's a CDP explosion or was it?

[00:09:45] Well, I can also only claim partial credit on this.

[00:09:48] It was a CDP explosion.

[00:09:50] I think $683 billion was spent on CDPs last year.

[00:09:57] Just not really in retail.

[00:10:02] So it's what everyone is talking about, but act.

[00:10:06] Everyone needs them.

[00:10:08] Everyone wants them.

[00:10:11] But the complexity and integration challenges associated with incorporating

[00:10:16] CDPs, especially into existing legacy systems in retail has been a key deterrent.

[00:10:24] Some organizations have been even more hesitant, not just for the high cost of

[00:10:30] the implementation and the amount of the migration, but just the resource

[00:10:36] investments required for adoption and maintenance.

[00:10:40] So there are players in this space dedicated to easing this pain and

[00:10:44] committed to providing seamless integrations.

[00:10:47] But it's really going to come down to who makes it the easiest for a

[00:10:57] billion dollar company to adopt a CDP and not take two to do it.

[00:11:02] Yeah, I spend a lot of time working with Microsoft partners that are in this space,

[00:11:07] both in the technology of it as well as doing the implementation help.

[00:11:12] And I definitely see a lot of movement there.

[00:11:13] I think you're right, though, that at least in retail, it's maybe a little too

[00:11:17] slow or slower than it should be to adopt because I can't imagine just how many

[00:11:22] times I'm talking about customer data platforms and how much everybody needs this.

[00:11:25] And we had guests who talked about this, right?

[00:11:28] We had, I think Nadine had talked about it from vitamin shop.

[00:11:31] I think even on the CPG side, right, me or we could have talked for hours

[00:11:34] with him about how they're leveraging customer data.

[00:11:37] Importance is there.

[00:11:38] I think you got that part for sure.

[00:11:40] It's just the usual technology deployment slowness we see in retail that

[00:11:44] kind of maybe bit this one a little bit and slow things down in the end.

[00:11:48] Yeah, so I'm going all in for 2020.

[00:11:50] There you go.

[00:11:51] There you go.

[00:11:51] Stick with it.

[00:11:52] Stick with it.

[00:11:53] All right.

[00:11:53] Moving on to prediction number seven, loyalty program evolution.

[00:11:57] There was a prediction you had here about paid tiers and maybe a little bit

[00:12:00] of Web 3 sprinkled into that as part of that evolution.

[00:12:03] So I don't know what do you think about this one?

[00:12:05] Although loyalty programs did go strong for 2023 for many retailers,

[00:12:10] I can't claim that Web 3 played a part out as much as it should have.

[00:12:15] Yeah.

[00:12:16] There was a lot of confusion between Web 3 and crypto.

[00:12:20] Oh, yeah.

[00:12:20] It's not this thing.

[00:12:22] It doesn't have to be together.

[00:12:24] One doesn't require the other.

[00:12:26] Yep, exactly.

[00:12:28] But we did.

[00:12:30] I didn't see any paid tiers anywhere within my realm.

[00:12:34] Personally, all of my loyalty programs over the past year have been

[00:12:37] ultra lame and in some cases the brand should really be embarrassed.

[00:12:42] No, it's kind of going in the other direction.

[00:12:44] It's falling in the wrong way.

[00:12:45] It's a huge opportunity.

[00:12:47] It's a huge opportunity.

[00:12:48] There has been significant investments last year in loyalty.

[00:12:54] But as a consumer, I haven't seen the results on my.

[00:12:59] Yeah, there you go.

[00:13:00] Yeah.

[00:13:01] So I mean, they're definitely classic examples of amazing loyalty

[00:13:04] programs and I guess amazing to find in terms of just how many people join

[00:13:08] the loyalty program to help drive that retail business.

[00:13:11] You can hold up obviously Amazon Prime.

[00:13:14] We can say Walmart Plus, Ultra Beauty's loyalty program.

[00:13:17] What drives like, what is it like 80, 90% of their business?

[00:13:20] Same.

[00:13:21] It's insane.

[00:13:21] But Ureya, other than Amazon and Walmart, who's doing paid tiers for these?

[00:13:26] Barnes & Noble has a paid loyalty program.

[00:13:28] Yeah, maybe because of the more like just prices going up in general.

[00:13:34] Yeah, maybe that's loaded down.

[00:13:35] Yeah.

[00:13:37] Is because everybody's complaining about the price of eggs.

[00:13:40] There are only so many subscriptions that every consumer is willing to pay for, right?

[00:13:43] So who's going to give up their Netflix subscription for a paid retail or loyalty tier?

[00:13:50] I think that's the question everybody's asking.

[00:13:52] I suppose you'll know per dollar much.

[00:13:53] Exactly.

[00:13:54] Unless it's going to be as massive as a Walmart Plus or an Amazon Prime,

[00:13:58] maybe that's hard to put the end of value in there.

[00:14:00] All right, Ricardo.

[00:14:01] Prediction number eight, it's all you.

[00:14:04] Anywhere commerce versus immersive commerce.

[00:14:07] And this was one of our themes for the season, too.

[00:14:11] Yeah, I'm going to claim partial credit on this one.

[00:14:13] We wouldn't have made it a theme, right?

[00:14:15] If we didn't think it was happening and a big deal and it was worth talking about.

[00:14:20] I'm willing to accept that there's a ton of innovation here happening in this space.

[00:14:24] Think about just episodes we had.

[00:14:26] We had Cynthia Holland from Avi.io talking about Anywhere commerce.

[00:14:30] I think we had so much good stuff happening there.

[00:14:33] But I think in the end, you know what, how back I can't claim total success on this

[00:14:38] as the deployments aren't really there yet.

[00:14:40] It's still a lot of tests, trials, experiments, baby steps.

[00:14:45] It's not really everybody's not going all in yet, I think.

[00:14:49] Yeah, brands need to move beyond the glitter, especially with POCs.

[00:14:53] Taking a tagline from Diesel Jeans.

[00:14:56] Be brave.

[00:14:57] Yeah, exactly.

[00:14:58] Be bold.

[00:14:59] Be brave.

[00:14:59] Build the future now.

[00:15:01] There's nothing to wait for.

[00:15:04] People watch the consumers come.

[00:15:06] Exactly.

[00:15:06] Yeah.

[00:15:07] Exactly.

[00:15:08] All right, moving on to prediction number nine, Casey.

[00:15:11] This is a good one.

[00:15:12] It's Web 3 versus the metaverse.

[00:15:14] Which one went out or is the answer neither?

[00:15:17] Okay, this one's a little bit heartbreaking.

[00:15:19] I think the only winners were Torrey's.

[00:15:22] Possibly.

[00:15:25] It's like a completely new division of every law firm.

[00:15:29] I think more brands spent times with legal discussing this than with

[00:15:32] their engineering teams.

[00:15:33] Yeah.

[00:15:36] While there were some very cool things happening in this space, I mean,

[00:15:41] hello, Lux Lock, we were led the way here in a lot of ways.

[00:15:45] Being the first to do a few things.

[00:15:47] I can't claim that retailers everywhere went all in on Web 3 or the metaverse.

[00:15:53] Yeah.

[00:15:53] Although I had bets on Web 3 versus metaverse, brands are still experimenting.

[00:16:00] Some brands have fully operational divisions to experiment in this space

[00:16:06] and budgets to experiment, but it's still not mainstream for either.

[00:16:11] I think that there's a huge opportunity here on both the Web 3 side for tracking

[00:16:18] authentication, warranty services, ownership.

[00:16:23] And I think that there's a lot of opportunity on the metaverse side with

[00:16:27] virtual stores, marketing capabilities, video games, really attracting consumers

[00:16:34] at a younger age and just allowing brands to be more playful.

[00:16:39] But going back to the Anywhere Commerce and Immersive Commerce, you're just

[00:16:43] going to have to be bold, be brave, build something that you enjoy

[00:16:51] and have a vision of what it's going to look like in five years.

[00:16:54] Let's go.

[00:16:55] Yeah.

[00:16:55] Well, I guess it was last season we had Alan Smithson on talking about what he

[00:16:59] was doing with them all in the metaverse and that's launched.

[00:17:01] Right?

[00:17:02] So there's opportunity out there to see some cool things.

[00:17:06] I know Alan had shown me some cool stuff happening with Starburst

[00:17:10] and building their world.

[00:17:12] So I think there's definitely some opportunity.

[00:17:14] I guess the challenge really is, is this a matter of if you build it,

[00:17:18] will they come or not?

[00:17:19] Because you still have to rely on consumers adopting the right

[00:17:23] technology, right to jump in.

[00:17:25] So it's not just a matter of retailers choosing to do something.

[00:17:27] You've got to, there has to be enough critical mass for consumers to do it.

[00:17:31] And I guess we'll have to see if Apple's Vision Pro is going to move

[00:17:34] the needle on this or not.

[00:17:35] Yes.

[00:17:36] So just like Neil Redding told us this season, right?

[00:17:38] Now that spatial computing is something that we all know what

[00:17:41] that means and talk about.

[00:17:42] We'll have to see what impact that has in 2024 and see if that changes.

[00:17:47] I agree.

[00:17:48] I agree.

[00:17:49] They launched with something like, I don't even know how it's possible,

[00:17:53] but like a million apps in the app store work with these vehicles.

[00:17:56] Yeah, right?

[00:17:58] It's some things coming this year and there's space for this.

[00:18:02] Okay, okay.

[00:18:03] Ricardo, what brings us that brings us to prediction number 10?

[00:18:08] And honestly, this might have well been a ring of free you.

[00:18:12] We too easy.

[00:18:14] Generative AI.

[00:18:16] I mean, you had zero chance of this one not working out.

[00:18:21] Yeah, I guess I'd like to call this one the sure bet.

[00:18:23] So yeah, it's a solid nail that on this one.

[00:18:25] I think I still get credit for that though, right?

[00:18:26] I mean, you know, it was still a prediction.

[00:18:28] It counts.

[00:18:29] It counts.

[00:18:30] To be, I don't like cheaters.

[00:18:32] So I'm not really giving anyone credit for generative AI.

[00:18:36] It can die in all the applications that I've seen this year.

[00:18:39] I've been shown clothes that I can't buy, place I can't visit.

[00:18:44] And people that don't exist and I'm not really impressed.

[00:18:49] It's really as a consumer, you've just shown it sold me a dream

[00:18:53] that is impossible to experience for real.

[00:18:58] Yeah, there's some things to work out.

[00:19:00] I mean, there's good use cases.

[00:19:01] There's let's call them the bad use cases where it's not really adding value.

[00:19:05] You're just cheating things.

[00:19:07] But I think there's been plenty of this is an easy win only because

[00:19:09] there's been so many good use cases, whether it's personalizing things

[00:19:13] to enter in a real way, not in the fake way like you're talking about

[00:19:16] where the things don't exist.

[00:19:18] So there's that.

[00:19:19] There's really cool things around summarizing customer reviews that retailers are doing.

[00:19:23] There's a lot of cool things happen on the production side to actually

[00:19:26] help produce real products in a faster timeline than before.

[00:19:31] And I think some of this ties into, you know, you remember back to season two

[00:19:34] when we had Ashley from Bentana on and worked on the technology

[00:19:37] for the 3D models and things for products.

[00:19:39] You start connecting the dots between these things and generative AI

[00:19:42] really starts to make the whole production process so much smoother and faster.

[00:19:46] Once people really start getting into we're going to start to see some

[00:19:49] really cool things come to market a lot faster and easier

[00:19:53] and hopefully with a lot less waste as well.

[00:19:55] So I think there's lots of upside to it that we just have to get there.

[00:19:58] But I think this will last year was the year when everybody tried it out

[00:20:01] and played with it and it was a no brainer.

[00:20:03] It's true.

[00:20:04] It's a no brainer even at the beginning of the year to say, yeah,

[00:20:06] this is going to be big.

[00:20:07] And it was and there's lots of examples for it.

[00:20:10] You could put it on this year's list too.

[00:20:12] Right.

[00:20:12] And it would be a ringer as well because there's going to be lots

[00:20:15] of goodness coming from it.

[00:20:16] Hopefully not as much bad stuff that you keep running into.

[00:20:20] Right.

[00:20:20] I think we can separate like generative AI B2B and generative AI consumer.

[00:20:27] I think I hate all the consumer applications that I've seen,

[00:20:31] but the B2B Housebacks that I've seen with PLM systems and holograms,

[00:20:38] right?

[00:20:38] Apple creation and product renderings to essentially go outside the box,

[00:20:44] create more SKUs, definitely some compelling attributes.

[00:20:48] I'm just ready to see less in social media.

[00:20:53] Yeah, so let's say less PR stuff and more real stuff.

[00:20:57] I think we'll see.

[00:20:57] What business?

[00:20:58] Yeah.

[00:20:58] No, I'll call this one when we come back to do our predictions for this year.

[00:21:02] I'll probably call this one the year of AI ROI

[00:21:06] instead of just the year of AI play.

[00:21:08] Yeah.

[00:21:09] Right?

[00:21:09] Because it's the things that actually drive a return that'll matter.

[00:21:13] Okay, so apparently I'm keeping score, so let's total it up here.

[00:21:18] Accounting for partial credit on some, you have three out of a possible five points

[00:21:24] and looks like I have 2.5 out of five.

[00:21:29] Go figure.

[00:21:30] Close.

[00:21:30] It was close.

[00:21:31] I just managed to be so fancy.

[00:21:33] Yeah.

[00:21:33] Well, you know, a slight, barely pulling out a win there.

[00:21:37] Maybe that makes me more than meets the eye today, right?

[00:21:40] It's too late to pull off that reference.

[00:21:42] Like it's not going to happen.

[00:21:43] I already used it.

[00:21:44] Yeah, all right.

[00:21:45] You beat me to it again.

[00:21:48] Let's move on to some highlights for season four.

[00:21:52] All right.

[00:21:52] So season three highlights.

[00:21:54] I've already taken it out of our scrap for season four actually, Ricardo.

[00:21:58] So that might just this might be the last time anyone hears that.

[00:22:01] That might be.

[00:22:02] It might be.

[00:22:03] All right.

[00:22:03] So what was your favorite episode of season three and why?

[00:22:07] Favorite episode is the magic of RFID with JP Campbell.

[00:22:12] I don't really stay on top of this stuff as much as I'd like to.

[00:22:16] He really broke down the applications of RFID down to business managers.

[00:22:21] Yeah.

[00:22:21] To just really understand potential use cases and frankly,

[00:22:25] defined what each of these types of technology are and define the acronym.

[00:22:31] Yeah.

[00:22:31] Yeah.

[00:22:31] You know, really if anybody is still curious about what RFID is and how it can be used,

[00:22:41] take a listen to this episode because absolutely you can walk away

[00:22:47] leading the conversation in the office with that 100%.

[00:22:52] I really felt.

[00:22:54] Yeah, it was good.

[00:22:55] Well, what about you?

[00:22:56] For me, I think it was our video commerce episode with Vincent Yang from Firework.

[00:23:02] I'm still, if I think back to that episode, notwithstanding that I love the topic

[00:23:07] right with video commerce and I'm a big fan of that as a use case and everything,

[00:23:12] but Vincent is just so knowledgeable on this and has so insightful and everything talked about.

[00:23:19] This was one of those episodes probably not since we did the big e-commerce episode

[00:23:24] season two right with Brian Dover.

[00:23:26] We could have just kept on talking for days on that topic and not run out of things to say.

[00:23:31] And it would still have been super interesting that probably could have been

[00:23:35] if we had let ourselves have a three hour episode, it probably would have been.

[00:23:39] I agree.

[00:23:40] I really enjoy Vincent and I have to say if only our listeners could listen

[00:23:46] to the first 30 minutes before we hit record and the 30 minutes after.

[00:23:50] Yeah.

[00:23:51] There's not.

[00:23:52] It's like where all the good stuff is happening.

[00:23:54] We should really start.

[00:23:55] Yeah, I wasn't kidding.

[00:23:56] We had a three hour episode on that one and it would have been incredibly interesting

[00:24:00] and you would have been glued to your speaker listening to that.

[00:24:03] Yeah.

[00:24:05] Yeah.

[00:24:05] How are you?

[00:24:06] What was your favorite?

[00:24:07] Oh, favorite moment.

[00:24:08] I have an interesting one during the grocery shop recap episode with

[00:24:12] Christina Gustavson and Ben Miller when Jeff Roster was a guest host with me

[00:24:16] on that one and Ben actually said at one point we've actually managed to

[00:24:19] get through 20 minutes of this recording without ever saying the words retail media

[00:24:24] and just the look on Jeff's face at that point because of all the times

[00:24:27] that I have poked fun at him for ignoring retail media until now.

[00:24:31] I think that was just priceless.

[00:24:35] Rare for Ben when you're in.

[00:24:37] Which by the way, if you remember was Christina's comment

[00:24:39] because even she said it's like rare for Ben not to bring up

[00:24:43] retail media in less than two minutes and just as much as it is for me.

[00:24:46] So the fact that we managed to go 20 was just amazing.

[00:24:51] My favorite moment was Ron Thurston announcing that he's joined me

[00:24:55] on the tech side of retail with his launch of Aussie.

[00:24:59] Yeah.

[00:24:59] Oh, yeah.

[00:25:00] And so I am thrilled that he's joined the dark side.

[00:25:05] Yeah.

[00:25:05] And spoiler alert be on the lookout for a perhaps a season four episode

[00:25:09] where Ron comes back and shares the launch experience in all the juicy details.

[00:25:16] Amazing.

[00:25:18] All right.

[00:25:18] So what surprised you the most this season?

[00:25:21] I think you know exactly which episode surprised me the most.

[00:25:26] It was like visible in my facial expressions.

[00:25:29] I think I even dropped the F bomb a couple of times in like the pre interview process.

[00:25:37] Mirror, Ali from Kraft Heinz literally blew my mind.

[00:25:41] Yeah.

[00:25:41] I don't come from big box CPG.

[00:25:44] I had no idea how advanced the data usage was at a CPG company of that size.

[00:25:50] Yeah.

[00:25:51] Nor would I have expected the culture he's cultivating for him to be creative,

[00:25:56] curious and test, try.

[00:25:59] That was amazing.

[00:26:00] Yeah.

[00:26:00] Try things and fail.

[00:26:02] Yeah.

[00:26:02] Just try things.

[00:26:04] I was beyond surprised.

[00:26:07] That is definitely one I would be telling someone even if you weren't in the CPG space,

[00:26:12] you want to go and if you hadn't listened to that episode,

[00:26:14] go listen to it because you'll learn so much about how to actually leverage data.

[00:26:19] Especially if you're in any kind of retail or CPG business,

[00:26:22] it doesn't matter.

[00:26:23] And if you're outside of grocery, you're just...

[00:26:25] Mirror had so many great use cases and examples of how his team leverages the data they have

[00:26:31] to really help drive the business.

[00:26:32] And it was...

[00:26:33] It really was amazing to learn from him how they're applying all that data.

[00:26:37] Yeah.

[00:26:37] Very rare in the fashion industry would we come across like this?

[00:26:44] And I just...

[00:26:46] Maybe I'm biased, but I always think we do things better than everyone else.

[00:26:50] Meet up like brands and fashion and apparel and retail.

[00:26:54] I was completely shocked.

[00:26:56] I learned a lot.

[00:26:57] And speaking of data, probably my surprising one was our last episode actually with

[00:27:03] Nadina Gugliometti from the Vitamin Shop.

[00:27:05] She leads as our Chief Customer Experience Officer.

[00:27:07] Also really interesting thing is to see how her team is taking advantage of the data

[00:27:13] they capture around customers, how to both improve their loyalty program.

[00:27:17] She gave us some examples of that.

[00:27:18] But then just the overall in-store experience and how well their store team members engage

[00:27:23] with customers is so much of that is driven by very specific actions and things that

[00:27:28] they're doing as they learn about their customers.

[00:27:30] So I think that was a really smart way of doing that.

[00:27:33] And again, not necessarily in a CPG space, but very specialized, right?

[00:27:38] It's definitely vitamin obviously and wellness being a specialty area.

[00:27:43] I was really impressed with just so many interesting things that she's doing there.

[00:27:46] That one surprised me the most, I think.

[00:27:48] Yeah, their commitment to customer education and building

[00:27:52] customer loyalty and retention is very admirable.

[00:27:55] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:27:56] All right, so we had six retail transformers this season of which both

[00:28:00] Nadina and Mir were two of those.

[00:28:02] But of the six, which one stood out to you the most, Casey?

[00:28:05] I'd say Cynthia Holland, CEO of Mavi.

[00:28:08] Got to give her some claps for forging a new channel.

[00:28:12] Anywhere commerce, bringing commerce to cars.

[00:28:16] I think it's very compelling and it's able to be adopted across every retail category

[00:28:26] that I can literally think of.

[00:28:28] I think it's very relevant and interesting.

[00:28:30] Very innovative.

[00:28:31] And yeah.

[00:28:33] Yeah, I agree.

[00:28:34] I think that was definitely a stand out.

[00:28:35] I mean, so I'm thinking about which was most unique of the six to me.

[00:28:40] And I think I have to go with Jeffrey P. McNulty because of every retail

[00:28:46] transformers we've talked to, Jeffrey really had the most interesting in

[00:28:50] terms of substance and quantity of frameworks and examples around how to be

[00:28:56] a retail leader and how and I guess I realized should say how to be a good

[00:29:00] retail leader.

[00:29:01] I had so many things to say again, another one of these where you have

[00:29:05] to say, well, there's a reason why he has a successful best selling book

[00:29:08] on this topic because he's just got so many good examples from his own

[00:29:13] experiences and other brands that he's worked with and helped.

[00:29:16] I think that one was probably the most unique and we've had lots of folks

[00:29:20] right on on the show who have been our retail transformers who focus on

[00:29:23] that human element in retail.

[00:29:25] But I think his take was really unique on that.

[00:29:28] Yeah, he did really flex on what it is to be a leader on the floor.

[00:29:33] Yeah.

[00:29:34] I think it always has to come back down to the experience on the floor.

[00:29:38] Yeah.

[00:29:39] All right, so we had three themes for the season, right?

[00:29:42] AI and automation, immersive and anywhere commerce and back to basics.

[00:29:46] Which one do you think had the most impact and which one had the most fun

[00:29:50] episode of the season?

[00:29:52] I mean, I think this goes into like why we chose these as a

[00:29:54] theme in the first place, but immersive and anywhere commerce is

[00:29:58] always going to be the most fun.

[00:30:00] But automation and AI have the biggest impact.

[00:30:04] Yeah, agree with that.

[00:30:05] While at the same time, like back to basics just needs to get done in order

[00:30:09] for us to have a future in retail period.

[00:30:11] Absolutely.

[00:30:12] Absolutely.

[00:30:13] And I have to say with the back to basics theme, that's the one

[00:30:16] that really brings us back to the human beings at the center of this

[00:30:20] business, right?

[00:30:21] Because in the end, retail is a people business.

[00:30:24] Yeah, I'd make an entire season on back to basics and just remind everyone

[00:30:28] what retail is, why we got into it in the first place and why are we

[00:30:32] still having the same problems we had 20 years ago?

[00:30:35] It's time to halt and move on.

[00:30:38] Because there's really things out there.

[00:30:40] Yeah.

[00:30:41] We had what, two mini series this season.

[00:30:45] Need to Greatness and the data blades.

[00:30:48] What stood out to you most about these two series, Ricardo?

[00:30:53] I think I have to say Blade to Greatness may be my new favorite part

[00:30:56] of doing the podcast just because when I think of all three guests

[00:31:00] in this right between with Ron Thurston with April's the bra with

[00:31:02] Jeffrey again, they all brought such unique insights to a wide variety

[00:31:08] of issues, right?

[00:31:09] We covered things around raw leadership that skills that retailers need to be.

[00:31:14] April brings such an incredible insight around how to be positive no

[00:31:18] matter what it is that's happening, right?

[00:31:20] In the business, how do you turn something into a positive?

[00:31:23] And of course, Ron, no one advocates for store teams and the

[00:31:26] kind of work and management that needs to happen in this

[00:31:30] direction, recognition that needs to happen for store teams at corporate.

[00:31:33] No one does that better than Ron.

[00:31:34] And I think that combination of those three people we had on that series

[00:31:39] to me just makes it both fun and unique and insightful.

[00:31:42] And it's probably the best part of the show really.

[00:31:45] And then with data blades, I mean, that one, I think is also a lot

[00:31:49] of fun in a different way because Georgina really also springs

[00:31:52] on unbelievable data points that you just wouldn't think about, right?

[00:31:56] Just based on asking a simple question at point of sale.

[00:32:00] To consumers.

[00:32:01] And I got to say my favorite one of those that we had with her had to be

[00:32:05] the one about self-checkout because you know what my feelings are

[00:32:09] about self-checkout generally.

[00:32:12] I just went to the West spent six weeks on the West Coast.

[00:32:16] And I wanted to, if there was, I just wanted to smash some of these

[00:32:21] self-checkout things.

[00:32:22] I, it's so different from living in Manhattan, right?

[00:32:26] Like it is such a different experience.

[00:32:28] And I was just like, Oh my gosh.

[00:32:30] Right.

[00:32:31] Right.

[00:32:31] I handle this.

[00:32:33] So I'm going to just stay.

[00:32:34] I'm just going to stay on our little island here.

[00:32:37] But it's, it's very interesting because we do talk about data

[00:32:42] all the time.

[00:32:43] But I don't think so many people understand where everybody else

[00:32:48] is getting their data from and how they're crunching these numbers.

[00:32:53] So I am a bit of a data junkie.

[00:32:55] Yeah.

[00:32:56] You tell me a percentage.

[00:32:57] I'm like out of wood, right?

[00:33:00] I'm like the naysayer of like, sure.

[00:33:03] Right.

[00:33:03] 30% of 30 people.

[00:33:05] Right.

[00:33:05] Great.

[00:33:06] That's nothing.

[00:33:06] Don't care.

[00:33:07] Means nothing to me.

[00:33:09] I really enjoyed the data blades because it was just really interesting data.

[00:33:15] It comes from people who we know comes from companies that we know.

[00:33:20] We know their processes and I feel very secure in repeating these numbers.

[00:33:25] And I find it very compelling.

[00:33:27] And I think more data we understand and the more KPIs and information we know

[00:33:32] from other industries, there's always this opportunity for an intersection

[00:33:37] to take those findings even from grocery to apply them to beauty.

[00:33:43] Yeah.

[00:33:43] So I think we should keep those going.

[00:33:45] 100% Absolutely.

[00:33:47] Absolutely.

[00:33:48] All right.

[00:33:49] Bonus question.

[00:33:50] Everybody loves a bonus.

[00:33:52] Which one do you, which one mattered the most to the industry?

[00:33:55] Oh, well, this will be a big surprise to everyone.

[00:33:58] But I'm going to actually say two episodes and both of them were our

[00:34:01] Taylor's versions of episodes because you know, if it's worth repeating,

[00:34:05] it matters.

[00:34:06] And of course, you know, we had NRF for beginners with Anley, the Dada,

[00:34:10] which we had done a year ago and we brought that back and refreshed it

[00:34:14] with Andy and then I can't say enough about the impact and importance

[00:34:19] of the work that retail ROI does in this industry.

[00:34:22] It really is all about how retail recognizes and gives back and tries

[00:34:26] to improve the community around this industry.

[00:34:29] And I think retail ROI really embodies that the best.

[00:34:32] So again, those, you know, we had one of our very first episodes of the show

[00:34:37] was around the history of retail ROI.

[00:34:39] And this was going to be the, this month was the 15th anniversary

[00:34:42] Super Saturday event for retail ROI.

[00:34:45] And it was a huge success.

[00:34:46] It was a sold out event with so many retailers attending.

[00:34:49] So I really have to give the nod to both of those because of their

[00:34:52] importance. And at the end of the day, it's Taylor's world and we're

[00:34:55] all just living in it.

[00:34:57] No, if I'm not mistaken, Ricardo, your face is on a lot of shirts

[00:35:01] running around.

[00:35:02] That is true.

[00:35:05] And our, yeah, that is true.

[00:35:06] Yep.

[00:35:06] And can thank retail ROI team for that and the team at Insights

[00:35:10] for coming up with that one.

[00:35:12] Yeah.

[00:35:14] It's awesome.

[00:35:16] All right, Ricardo, how much do we want to give away for season four?

[00:35:19] Well, I guess we don't want to give away too much, but definitely

[00:35:22] everyone be on the lookout for a season four trailer coming soon.

[00:35:25] That'll sure to make you anxious for new episodes.

[00:35:28] And I guess I could mention that we're going to continue our two mini

[00:35:32] series.

[00:35:32] 100% yep.

[00:35:33] Blade to greatness and data blades will be back for another

[00:35:36] season each and we'll actually finally launch them as their own

[00:35:40] podcast series.

[00:35:41] So spoiler alert there standalone podcast for those two.

[00:35:44] So maybe that's the big news that we can share is that the

[00:35:47] retail razor shows expanding and that way we'll still have this main

[00:35:50] show, but you'll see both of those mini series show up as their own

[00:35:53] podcast and your favorite player.

[00:35:55] So if you're listening to us on Apple podcast and use flash, you're

[00:35:58] going to see a retail razor channel popping up in your app very soon.

[00:36:03] Love that.

[00:36:04] Those two series are amazing.

[00:36:06] And if you've been watching our YouTube channel, then you already

[00:36:09] know that you can watch those series there and on their own as

[00:36:14] their own podcast on YouTube as well.

[00:36:16] Right.

[00:36:17] And one could also say that we may just be expanding those mini series

[00:36:22] and I don't know, adding maybe one or two new ones in addition to those two.

[00:36:26] So stay tuned, faithful listeners and viewers, you may see us feature a few

[00:36:31] more special topics around education and retail and AI that you won't want

[00:36:35] to miss.

[00:36:36] And of course we will be back with some incredible retail

[00:36:39] transformers for you.

[00:36:41] Yes.

[00:36:41] And I know one thing we've been asked many times now and that's

[00:36:45] for the return of the retail Avengers.

[00:36:50] I love that I'm like Captain America.

[00:36:51] Exactly.

[00:36:55] But we're not giving that away just yet.

[00:36:58] You'll have to wait and see what happens for that.

[00:37:00] But for now, I think it's time to call this episode a wrap, Kasey.

[00:37:05] Yes, it is.

[00:37:07] If you enjoyed our show, please consider giving us a five star rating

[00:37:11] and review on Apple podcasts and good pods.

[00:37:14] Remember to smash that subscribe button in your favorite podcast

[00:37:18] player and catch us on YouTube so you don't miss a minute.

[00:37:21] A big thank you to our good pod listeners for helping us regularly rise

[00:37:26] to the top three spots in the indie management and indie marketing

[00:37:30] podcast charts.

[00:37:32] If you want to know more about today's show, please check out the

[00:37:35] show notes for handy links and more deets.

[00:37:38] I'm your co-host Casey Golden.

[00:37:39] And please connect with us and share your feedback on Twitter at

[00:37:42] KCC Golden, Ricardo underscore Belmar and at Retail Razor or find us

[00:37:47] on LinkedIn or of course on threads and Instagram.

[00:37:50] And if you want all the highlights from each episode shipped

[00:37:53] straight into your inbox, subscribe to our sub-stack newsletter

[00:37:57] for full episode transcripts and bonus content.

[00:38:00] I'm your host Ricardo Belmar.

[00:38:01] Thanks for joining us until season four.

[00:38:04] Keep cutting through the clutter and retail and retail tech

[00:38:07] and stay sharp.

[00:38:08] This is the Retail Razor Show.