S5E7 Unplugged & Unscripted: RetailClub's AI-First Event Revolution w/Krystina Gustafson

[00:00:01] Previews

[00:00:01] Ricardo Belmar: Retail Club is building retail's first AI native community. Bringing together 500 AI champions and change makers for their inaugural AI Deep Dive Retreat.

[00:00:14] Krystina Gustafson: fast forward probably even faster than 10 years down the road. When it comes to the pace of innovation we're seeing with ai, you know, maybe three years down the road, AI is gonna be infiltrating every single part of the organization. It completely disrupt the ways companies do businesses, probably create entire new businesses on both the consumer and tech side.

[00:00:30] well, I think it's gonna completely transform how we shop. I mean, I just, I. You'd be, I would be very hard to convince otherwise. I just, I don't understand, especially as we're starting to see these agentic browsers come to market, like it is going to literally transform every way that you interact with technology going forward.

[00:00:46] But when I'm looking for maybe a cocktail dress for my 20 year high school reunion, I'm probably gonna wanna take that one into my own hands.

[00:00:51] Casey Golden: AI is going to be one of the most compelling motivators to bring the business of [00:01:00] retail and the tech of retail to finally make them friends.

[00:01:04] Show Intro

[00:01:16] Ricardo Belmar: Welcome to Season Five, Episode Seven of the Retail Razor Show, the only retail podcast in the Top 10 All Time Indie Management podcast charts on Goodpods and the highest ranked retail podcast in the Top 100 Indie Marketing podcast charts on Goodpods.

[00:01:33] I'm Ricardo Belmar.

[00:01:34] Casey Golden: And I am Casey Golden.

[00:01:35] Welcome Retail Razor Fans to retail's favorite podcast where we cut through the clutter to give you sharp insights on what's happening in retail today, tomorrow, and where we get real about what's driving the future of retail.

[00:01:50] Ricardo Belmar: So Casey, I have a question for you. How many retail conferences do you go to every year?

[00:01:55] Casey Golden: Traditionally two, but none of the ones you go [00:02:00] to.

[00:02:02] However, my travel calendar is getting stacked this year, and I think you'll find me at all of them now.

[00:02:09] Ricardo Belmar: Oh, interesting. Interesting. Okay. Okay.

[00:02:12] And how many retail conferences do you think the typical retail executive goes to every year?

[00:02:18] Casey Golden: Well, I think they're forced to go to two, and I think that they might attend three.

[00:02:24] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:25] Casey Golden: I think four is pushing it for a retail exec

[00:02:27] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Yeah. I think if other retail execs are like most of the folks I talk to, there are just way too many conferences available. Then they can afford to just spare the time to go to them, which means the ones they do attend really have to demonstrate some strong value to get their attention.

[00:02:42] Casey Golden: And with all the talk and hype around AI solutions these days, it's even harder to decide what shows and conferences to go to.

[00:02:51] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, a absolutely. Absolutely. And if you were to guess from this series of questions today, what would you say this episode is going to be all about?[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] Casey Golden: Well, I'm pretty sure it's a great setup to let our audience know that we have a guest today that's here to share all the details on an amazing new retail conference experience. Maybe something a bit more intentional, a lot more personal, tailored to what retailers really wanna learn when they go to a conference.

[00:03:22] Am I close?

[00:03:23] Ricardo Belmar: Well, Casey, it just so happens that you are a hundred percent spot on. Amazing, isn't it? I mean, you'd think we had planned this ahead for this or something. We didn't, wouldn't you?

[00:03:31] Casey Golden: Maybe once,

[00:03:34] Ricardo Belmar: Maybe

[00:03:34] Casey Golden: maybe a little bit.

[00:03:35] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, a little bit. Just this one's. Just this

[00:03:37] Casey Golden: never happens.

[00:03:38] Ricardo Belmar: yep. So lemme go ahead and talk a bit about our guest today. Someone I've known for many years now have been a big fan of her work , Krystina Gustafson. And for those who don't know Krystina, she has been on the show multiple times, but just gonna go ahead and read through her bio. For anyone that isn't familiar with her retail history.

[00:03:55] Krystina is a co-founder and the Chief Content Officer at Retail Club, [00:04:00] a new retreats business from the founders of Shop Talk.

[00:04:03] Casey Golden: I noticed you said retreats business, not events or conference business.

[00:04:10] Ricardo Belmar: That's right. That's right. You are paying close attention to, to what I was just saying, we did say earlier, this isn't your typical event, right. Retail Club is building retail's first AI native community. Bringing together 500 AI champions and change makers for their inaugural AI Deep Dive Retreat.

[00:04:31] Taking place September 14th to 17th in Huntington Beach, California. Prior to Retail Club, Krystina was the Senior VP of content at Shop Talk and Grocery Shop. Uh, leading conferences in retail, grocery, and CPG space. I'm sure most of our audience is familiar with those. She led the team that shaped the retail and e-commerce industry narratives across all four of their annual events, Shop Talk, Shop Talk Europe, Shop Talk Fall, and Grocery Shop, including agenda development and [00:05:00]speaker selection. Krystina joined Shop Talk in 2017 after spending four years as a retail reporter and content editor at CNBC. Which is, I'm pretty sure during the time when, I first met her at an NRF conference after she had done one of the, onstage interviews in one of the keynote sessions. Prior to CNBC, Krystina was a web editor at Women's Wear Daily, the trade publication for the fashion industry, which one I'm sure that you're quite familiar with.

[00:05:26] She has interviewed prominent business figures from retail and beyond, including the CEOs of Target, Sam's Club, the Honest Company, and Warby Parker, plus Dreamworks co-founder Jeffrey Katzenberg, and everyone's, well, maybe everyone's favorite. Shark Tank Shark, Kevin O'Leary, Mr. Wonderful himself.

[00:05:45] Casey Golden: Most impressive. We'll see if you get the get where that's from, but the last one is very interesting to me. I am a ww d cult member.[00:06:00]

[00:06:00] Ricardo Belmar: Of course, of course. Yep. Yep. I actually saw that when it was at the Last Shop Talk, if I remember right. And well, what we could probably do another whole episode talking about that session and the interesting takeaways, from it. Had lots to do with retail media and actually if you go back to our season opener with Drew Cashmore, I think we may have made a reference to that interview.

[00:06:17] I'll have to go back and check that. But I think we talked about it for a, a quick minute there.

[00:06:21] Casey Golden: Well, either way. We are sure to learn all about what makes Retail Club special and unique. There's a reason it's called a retreat versus a conference. Right. Okay. And if I'm not mistaken, you've been invited to speak at this retreat.

[00:06:35] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, that's true. That's true. I'll be leading a session titled Automate Versus Augment, debating the Ultimate Role of ai. It'll be on Tuesday, September 16th, 2 45, and as we'll learn from Krystina on the uniqueness of the format of the overall event. This is a workshop style of discussion I'll be moderating on the topic.

[00:06:53] Really looking forward to it. Hopefully, for any of our listeners today, you'll be. Attending and can join that session and come away learning a [00:07:00] bit more about how AI can help you automate and augment, depending on your specific needs, but it'll be a really interesting group discussion.

[00:07:08] Casey Golden: That's great. Hopefully any of our listeners reviewers there will find you at the event even if they can't make your session. But, uh, go say hi,

[00:07:18] Ricardo Belmar: I Absolutely, please

[00:07:19] Casey Golden: super nice.

[00:07:21] Ricardo Belmar: Thank you. Thank you. So before we jump into our conversation with Krystina, I just wanna make one quick request of our fans and audience. If you like the show, please drop us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or Goodpods, and leave us a review too. Now, let us know what you liked, what you didn't, what you'd like to see from us next.

[00:07:40] We really want your feedback, and those five star ratings. It really helps us improve and grow the show.

[00:07:46] Casey Golden: That's right. And also a quick shout out to our fans that if you haven't checked it out yet, we recently launched our newest show in Retail Raiser Podcast Network. Retail Transformers episode one just [00:08:00] dropped a couple of weeks ago with a special return visit from our very first retail transformer back in season one of the show, April Sabral, and she's absolutely fabulous and amazing, and you definitely need to listen or watch that episode and take some notes.

[00:08:19] April brings so much value to the conversation on how to be a positive leader. And what makes you a better leader.

[00:08:27] Ricardo Belmar: That is so true. Definitely check it out and drop us a rating and a review on that show too. So what do you say, Casey? Should we jump into our conversation with Krystina?

[00:08:36] Casey Golden: Let's go.

[00:08:44] Welcome Krystina and the Importance of AI!

[00:08:44] Ricardo Belmar: Welcome back to The Retail Razor Show, Krystina, great to have you back.

[00:08:47] Krystina Gustafson: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me, Ricardo. Good to see Casey.

[00:08:50] Casey Golden: Always wonderful to have you on the show and we're so excited to talk with you today about Retail Club and what's happening with AI in retail. [00:09:00] There's certainly no bigger topic in the industry right now other than AI, any industry, I think, and, you know, let's, dig into what retailers can and should be leveraging to enhance their business.

[00:09:15] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. And you know, as we've been covering AI on this show pretty much all the time now, it seems, one thing we've learned is that as rich as the tool sets become, feature sets for all these LLMs and Gen AI, , most retailers are still really looking for guidance and direction on how to identify both the best use cases and challenges to solve with AI, let alone how to use AI to solve them.

[00:09:38] You know, I'm always hearing retailers ask for case studies, examples. They're looking for learning opportunities to really build up that experience and knowledge level to get the confidence they need to succeed. Because we've all seen examples of retailers who may have, you know, they'll have 10 AI projects and four of 'em end up failing.

[00:09:53] Right? Or, or more and they just don't, you know, are trying to figure out why. But.

[00:09:56] Introducing Retail Club and AI Deep Dive Retreat

[00:09:58] Ricardo Belmar: Why don't we start by Krystina, by having you give us the background [00:10:00] on what Retail Club is and what you're hoping to accomplish with the AI Deep Dive Retreat format for this event.

[00:10:06] Krystina Gustafson: Yeah, happy to. So Retail Club is a new retreats business from the founders of Shop Talk and Grocery Shop. And to your point, Ricardo we're currently planning our inaugural event, which is our AI Deep Dive Retreat taking place in Huntington Beach in way fewer days than I, I would like to, to admit.

[00:10:24] So we're working fast and furious, but I would say really the goal for this event is to create what we're calling retail's first AI native community. If we think back and our founding team has, you know, done this many, many times. They had founded Money 2020 Shop Talk, Grocery Shop, and now of course Retail Club.

[00:10:42] And I would say across all those various events, it was never just, oh, let's go out and build an event. All those events really were created at very transformational times for their industries. Right? So FinTech meetup of course alongside the FinTech revolution in that space. Shop Talk, it's crazy to think about, it's been [00:11:00] about 10 years since that event was founded. And if you think back then or back to then, it was when the Stitch Fixes were coming up, the Dollar Shave Clubs, you know, the Rent the Runways, all these really disruptive businesses. At the same time you kind of had a lot of hesitation, a lot of pushback from some of the traditional retailers about how disruptive digital and eCommerce were gonna be for their businesses. And so that was really the intention of Shop Talk, right? Was to create this all new community of people who were excited about digital, excited about eCommerce. You know, they weren't necessarily the cool kids back in 20 15, 20 16.

[00:11:30] And so we're very much, I would say, trying to do the same thing now for AI in retail, kind of working under the same premise that yes, AI is kind of one facet of retail innovation today, but fast forward probably even faster than 10 years down the road. When it comes to the pace of innovation we're seeing with ai, you know, maybe three years down the road, AI is gonna be infiltrating every single part of the organization. It completely disrupt the ways companies do businesses, probably create entire new businesses on both the consumer and tech side.

[00:11:56] So we wanna be there, we wanna be first, and we really wanna be the trusted [00:12:00]source for people who wanna learn about how to use AI in their businesses.

[00:12:03] Event Structure and Unique Approach

[00:12:03] Casey Golden: Given that this is an AI focused event, what makes AI Deep Dive Retreat AI first?

[00:12:10] Krystina Gustafson: That's a really good question. You know, I would say we want every single session, every single interaction, every single, everything that takes place at the event to be focused on ai. So we're. I think having about 50 plus different topics on our agenda, every single one discusses a different use case of AI.

[00:12:29] It could be short term, it could be long term, it could be function specific, it could be organization specific, but really kind of giving people a break from their day-to-day, you know, goals. You know, what are you trying to accomplish this quarter? And yes, Ricardo, to your point, definitely making sure we're giving people kind of case studies, real world examples, but giving them the opportunity to really kind of, deep dive, as the name suggests, into all the possibilities of AI, not just today, but in the long term. So it's sort of a vacation from your day job if sitting in meetings talking about AI is a vacation, I don't, I don't know if it particularly is but really [00:13:00] just kind of trying to be a mindset shift.

[00:13:02] We're setting that expectation with every single attendee, you know, every sponsor, every retailer and brand who comes that everyone needs to be showing up AI first. So everything from the content, as I was just mentioning, all the meetings that people participate in, everything is meant to be an opportunity to share your experiences with AI, ask questions about you know, what others are seeing and really just kinda learn.

[00:13:23] Casey Golden: Know, being able to have that free mind space to kind of have a creative workshop to where you can just kind of have the mental break to think and discuss with other people around these topics. We don't always get that in the work environment. Trying to find like an hour

[00:13:40] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:13:41] Casey Golden: is is very difficult. So,

[00:13:44] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. And, and I think what's interesting here too is, the, your way of structuring this to be, you know, I think of it as kind of almost a learning experience, right, for the retailers that are attending, but also an opportunity to build that community with all the tech suppliers who are bringing all these AI solutions.

[00:13:59] [00:14:00] Probably at the end of the day confusing more retailers than clearing up because there's so much variety and so many options of things to choose from.

[00:14:07] Challenges and Opportunities in AI Adoption

[00:14:07] Ricardo Belmar: So I guess when, what I really would like to dig into, because you and I have talked about this before, there are so many retail events now.

[00:14:13] It seems like every week there's another new retail event. And a lot of the retailers I talk to, you know, the first thing they're saying is I can't even figure out which ones to consider worth my time to, to go to 'cause nobody can go to all of the events that there are anymore.

[00:14:25] 'cause there's so many. But there seems to be a common format or two right across most of these events where they're always, you know, they're, they're keynote based, where you've got some super successful story to tell and that's great, right? Everybody wants to hear about those. And then you have panel discussions after panel discussion, after panel discussion with folks.

[00:14:42] And not that I'm suggesting that's a terrible format. It has its place and it works great for storytelling and for getting information across. But you know, you mentioned this is more of an intimate, kind of curated format, right. Versus the mega conference style and the panel discussion style.

[00:14:57] So what led you to focusing on that [00:15:00] as your approach and how do you see that as being unique here?

[00:15:03] Krystina Gustafson: really great question and I think you can probably blame our team for a lot of those, a lot of those events that are following that format. So I think at the end of the day, we definitely believe there's always gonna be a place for large scale events. We're certainly not trying to displace those.

[00:15:16] I think, you know, people kind of attend different events with different goals and I think, to your question, Ricardo. What we've been hearing a lot of in the industry is that since there are so many of those large scale events where you're kind of, running around trying to maximize every minute of your day, if you're on the tech side, it's all about kind of ROI, lead gen, et cetera.

[00:15:33] You know, how much can you really kind of accomplish if you're on the retailer and brand side again, you're kind of justifying those days being out of the office. So what can you bring back to your organization to prove that it was a worthwhile few days when you weren't immediately responding to emails or jumping on calls.

[00:15:46] And so I think, what we've been hearing is that people are really craving something that's a little bit more intimate, a little bit more collaborative and I guess what that looks like in practice, right? If I kind of even break that down a little bit further, right? If you think about how you were mentioning kind of those large [00:16:00] scale sessions, you know, great.

[00:16:01] Amazing to have some of those headliners people who are doing best in class examples of some of these digital initiatives, whether at their AI, et cetera. But I think oftentimes what we have found is some of the most interesting conversations that events happen when the session is over, right?

[00:16:15] And people are debriefing about what they just heard, or they're at a cocktail hour, or they're at breakfast, or you know, what, whatever they're doing. A lot of times it's kind of that open dialogue that happens after the speaker has left the stage. That really kind of drives the most learnings and the most impact for attendees.

[00:16:30] And so I think rather than trying to fight that, we're leaning very heavily into it. Right? And so the vast majority of our content sessions are gonna be what we're calling expert led workshops. Right? Ricardo, you're, leading one of those on automate versus augment. So really the idea there is to have a facilitator drive the dialogue among up to 30 attendees.

[00:16:47] Again there's 500 attendees total at this event. How can we create these smaller formats types of sessions where everyone can actively contribute, ask questions, share their ideas, et cetera. So your role as the facilitator is really to kind of stir [00:17:00] up that dialogue. You'll share your insights of course, and kind of, you know, get people talking.

[00:17:03] But the idea is for it to be really interactive, right? And you're not just kind of passively listening to content all day. I think where there are some opportunities for, let's call it somewhat more passive content, we still want it to be interactive, but we're doing things that we call our Level Up trainings and tutorials, right? So we'll have someone go up on stage and show people how to do vibe coding, how to use AI to be a more effective negotiator. So even kind of when you're in those more, let's call it traditional presentation type sessions there's still an opportunity for, the audience to ask questions for people to get a little more hands-on with the tools that they're you know, gonna be expected to use in the workforce, either, either today or in the future.

[00:17:36] So, trying to be a little more creative. I think to your point, yes, there's still gonna be some traditional case studies. We're still gonna have some presentations from. Startup founders and CEOs. So I wouldn't say we're completely ripping up everything. I think there are opportunities where some of the more traditional content approaches can still have a big impact, but really being thoughtful about, what that right mix is and how do we deliver the most value to our attendees.

[00:17:56] Casey Golden: Yeah.

[00:17:56] The Future of AI in Retail & Event Experiences

[00:17:56] Casey Golden: You've talked about breakthrough talks versus breakthrough experiences. What's the real difference from your perspective?

[00:18:03] Krystina Gustafson: It's a great question. So I would say breakthrough experiences are a little bit more comprehensive. Those would be the things like the level ups that we were just talking about, the expert led workshops. We're also gonna have a couple of fun onsite experiences for people to sort of engage in more social settings.

[00:18:18] So more to come on that front. But things think about like, hey. Hit workouts, yoga, et cetera. Again, you know, maybe you're not having a conversation with someone while you're doing a downward dog. But the idea is, okay, you both like yoga, you both like AI, you're in this amazing beachfront setting.

[00:18:31] You know, it'll stir up some conversation. And then the breakthrough talks, I would say are even kind of, one step less structured. So those are more kind of pure conversations that happen over breakfast, up to eight attendees, no facilitator. But again, really just kind of meant to create dialogue on some of the most pressing topics in AI.

[00:18:48] Things like, you know, what's gonna happen to the SaaS solution market, what are some of the broader ethical implications of AI and, really just kind of, tackling some of the meaty things that people wanna have conversations about.

[00:18:59] Ricardo Belmar: Well, [00:19:00] I, yeah, I love, I love that. And I think one of the other interesting things I've noticed in how you've been positioning the event is really the attendee mix. So you mentioned it's 500 people, so we're not talking about a mega events, but you're also looking for a 50 50 brand vendor mix. Right.

[00:19:15] Krystina Gustafson: That's exactly right. And I think the other thing that's really unique about how we're approaching the audience is how we're approaching audience members specifically. So, we're not gonna have an expo hall. There are no booths. The idea really, again, is for every single attendee to interact with every other attendee there and really kind of learn and collaborate.

[00:19:33] I think especially with where we are on the adoption curve, the learning curve that you were talking about earlier, Ricardo, with AI in retail, the retailers have a lot to learn from the tech solution providers. And so we want them very much to be in the mix interacting with retailers. You know, not meant to be kind of hawking your solutions left and right.

[00:19:50] It's gonna be more kind of top to top meetings where you talk again about, you know, how these solutions are gonna shape the, the future of the industry long term. But we feel very strongly that in order to really [00:20:00] kind of capture, the maximum potential of AI and retail, you need to have the tech solution providers having a seat at, at the table alongside the retailers and brands.

[00:20:07] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, and I certainly, from my perspective, yeah, I agree with that philosophy. I think especially when we're talking about a new technology like AI, you really have to rely on the expertise that the tech suppliers are bringing to the table at that, to, to get over that initial learning curve right before we can really start to achieve interesting things that you can tell afterwards and, and be one of those case studies.

[00:20:27] I, I guess one question that sort of relates to this is, you know how, when you think about how retailers are working with AI and this, how do you think. A retail brand can kind of preserve their brand voice in an AI driven world. And is that gonna be sort of an interesting topic through the event as well?

[00:20:45] Krystina Gustafson: It is so funny. I know we were talking earlier about how, you know, it, it's, it isn't even always AI that can put brands in hot water these days. So they're already facing a lot of challenges as it pertains to some of the cultural differences, let's call 'em that are, that are [00:21:00] sort of happening in the world and divisive issues.

[00:21:02] But yes, I think to your point, Ricardo, AI definitely ups the ante on some of the trouble that retailers can get into. I think to your question, yes, it is definitely a balancing act. You know, what are the opportunities specific to, let's say, marketing and creative right? There are so many more assets required to be a marketer today.

[00:21:23] Whether you're supporting TikTok, whether you're supporting your influencers you know, as AI really does kind of take off in personalization at much greater scale as possible. Just the amount of content you have to be churning out is. Going to exponentially multiply. And so how do you kind of use AI in a way that supports that but isn't gonna get your brand in hot water is, I think, a hundred percent something brands need to be talking about.

[00:21:46] I've heard some people talking about just sort of the level of transparency required and would be curious to, to hear you guys' thoughts about this as well, at least it seems from my perspective, there's kind of two elements here. One is I think the brands who are first to experiment [00:22:00] perhaps when consumers aren't.

[00:22:01] Used to it quite yet. They're gonna be a little bit more like knee jerky where, you know, maybe five years down the road. And this is common practice. It's just, you know, it is what it is. But I think where a lot of brands kind of find themselves getting into trouble is when consumers feel like brands are trying to pull a fast one on them, you know, and just turn something out really quickly.

[00:22:17] Like, oh, they won't notice, and they, and they feel like they're being duped.

[00:22:19] Casey Golden: Yeah, I mean it, I mean I, we had a conversation previously on another episode where, I mean, we just kind of went into a rabbit hole on AI ethics and the brand's transparency on sharing what they are and what they aren't using AI for. Especially when it comes to buying a product and that, that commerce piece, having the expectation of what you see is what you get

[00:22:44] Ricardo Belmar: right.

[00:22:45] Casey Golden: right.

[00:22:46] Data Readiness and Tech Maturity

[00:22:46] Casey Golden: Before retailers can unlock real value from ai, they need a strong data foundation. That hasn't always been retail's strong suit.

[00:22:55] Ricardo Belmar: We might say

[00:22:59] Casey Golden: [00:23:00] Um, yeah. Um, I mean I think we kind of came up with the term garbage in garbage out because it's all garbage.

[00:23:05] Krystina Gustafson: Yeah.

[00:23:08] Casey Golden: How prepared. Our most retail organizations when it comes to data readiness and tech stock maturity. Obviously I have my own opinion, but we talk to different retailers and definitely have different conversations.

[00:23:24] What do you think some of the biggest gaps that you're seeing and what's the reality of the situation from your side?

[00:23:30] Krystina Gustafson: It is such a good question and it's so nuanced, and I know Ricardo, you and I have talked about this a lot in the past. It's really interesting. As we were branding the event Retail Club, I was a little concerned that CPGs weren't going to identify with the event. That hasn't been the case. We are seeing a lot of, of pickup from them, but I bring this up because, I think a lot of times it depends on the industry. I think that CPGs tend to have their house a little bit more in order. Today as it pertains to AI readiness, they're experimenting a lot more. They just [00:24:00] kind of seem o overall a bit more prepared on, on all the topics that you just brought up.

[00:24:04] But I also think when you dig into the retailer side of things, it really depends, right? I was talking to a CMO from a very large retailer a couple of weeks ago, and she was kind of, off the cuff saying, well, you know, we all have our data in order now, so now it's more about just kind of implementation.

[00:24:17] And I was like, but do we, right? So I think the the answer is yes, some people are more prepared than others. The other thing that I would bring up here too is kind of yes, garbage in, garbage out, but. Dana doesn't always have to be perfect to get started, so I think there's also just kind of a recognition of where we are on the maturity curve.

[00:24:36] And yes, eventually we wanna get to a point where everyone has a unified AI strategy and their data's all talking to each other. And yes, that's how we're gonna leverage the full capabilities. But there's also a, Challenge if people just kind of wait for that opportunity to happen and then all these moments pass and they haven't been doing anything with ai, they're, they're gonna miss the boat.

[00:24:51] So I think it's having good enough data to,

[00:24:54] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:24:55] Casey Golden: get

[00:24:55] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. To get started. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:57] Krystina Gustafson: yeah. How do you guys think about that?

[00:24:58] Ricardo Belmar: Well, so what's [00:25:00] interesting to me, and this is, it's kind of an area where there's advantages and disadvantages to being a, let's say, legacy brand, right? Because you have, you've built a lot of scale because you've been around for all versus a relatively young brand where you have a lot less tech debt, right?

[00:25:14] Because you're, you started recently, so you've been able to leverage all than you as latest and greatest things, but you like the scale in that situation. So there, there's a pros and cons, I think, to both. But what I, I find interesting with this is it's the ones in the middle. That I think in between those two extremes that have the hardest time with this, because the ones in the middle tend to be the retailers who historically have put off certain tech investment and will be the first to say, well, we've gotten by this far.

[00:25:41] With this platform, let's hang onto it a little longer so we don't have to make that investment now. And I can make this other investment and then we'll come back to it. But the problem is you don't come back to it. And so, and so by putting it off, you end up compounding that issue, especially when it's around things like data integrity or a customer data platform.

[00:25:59] [00:26:00] And these are things that are just so fundamental to getting the data right. So that's where I think, you know, the larger. And, and we see this right? Easily, like when you talk to, when you see what Walmart is doing, you see they obviously have the scale to do just about anything they can really put their minds to, right?

[00:26:11] If they just. Focus on it and we see that happening versus, you know, a specialty apparel retailer maybe that you'd find in the mall that doesn't necessarily have Walmart scale, but they might be a newer brand so they can, they still have an opportunity there if they take it to do interesting things.

[00:26:25] And I think there are brands like Pac Sun for example, that do really super interesting things and in that sense and take advantage of their, customer data. So I always find it fascinating where 'cause we talk about in so many other areas in retail where there's that middle layer. A retail, who are the ones struggling the most typically.

[00:26:40] And this is just yet another example of that where it's just the nature of where you are in your kind of brand evolution that sort of puts you there where you, you don't quite have the scale. The large guys have, you still have some of the tech debt. You don't quite have the nimbleness that the younger brands have.

[00:26:53] And so you have to really, you know, dig in or to get past that. Um,

[00:26:58] Casey Golden: Yes.

[00:26:59] Ricardo Belmar: sorry. Go. Yeah, [00:27:00] go ahead

[00:27:00] Daisy.

[00:27:00] Casey Golden: I completely agree.

[00:27:02] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:27:02] Casey Golden: keep going.

[00:27:03] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:27:03] Agentic AI's Impact on Retail Operations

[00:27:03] Ricardo Belmar: So another example that, that this comes to mind is, when we think about what's the latest and greatest thing that we know everyone is gonna talk about in AI, it's a agentic AI, right?

[00:27:12] And a agents talking to agents and everybody using their AI agent to do everything, whether it's on the supply side or whether it's on the customer side. And Walmart has certainly made this, surface up into the news with their recent announcements with their super agents. With that, when we're talking about, leveraging AI agents to guide things like discovery, personalization, or even just at the transactional level, even right where the AI agents are, are now trying to own the transaction.

[00:27:35] How do you see that kind of reshaping the way consumers are gonna find and interact with products and, and is that the retail experience that you think consumers want?

[00:27:44] Krystina Gustafson: Wow. That's such a loaded

[00:27:45] Ricardo Belmar: I know

[00:27:46] Krystina Gustafson: I think we need a whole separate podcast.

[00:27:48] Ricardo Belmar: we could do another whole conversation on that one. Yeah.

[00:27:50] Casey Golden: There's two soap boxes here. You're more than welcome to join me or Ricardo.

[00:27:57] Krystina Gustafson: well, I think it's gonna completely [00:28:00] transform how we shop. I mean, I just, I. You'd be, I would be very hard to convince otherwise. I just, I don't understand, especially as we're starting to see these agentic browsers come to market, like it is going to literally transform every way that you interact with technology going forward.

[00:28:13] It's gonna be on your mobile device, it's gonna be on your, laptop. Like it's gonna be integrated into everything. I think to your question, we're still waiting to see what that looks like in practice. You know, some of the conversations that we've been having with people are, okay, as more shopping takes place on Perplexity, on Chat, GPT, what happens to the brand website.

[00:28:31] You know, there are some people who sort of are of the belief. Okay, these companies are gonna become their own new marketplaces and all that shopping's gonna take place there and the brand website's dead. I don't know that I really personally buy into that. I think at the end of the day, we've had a proliferation of, of shopping channels happening for, for many, many years.

[00:28:46] Like case in point, social. So I don't necessarily see it going that direction. I think my own personal hypothesis is similar to when we see technology advances in other industries, you know, whether it's, the airlines kind of, having best in class [00:29:00] mobile apps that can tell where you are on your journey.

[00:29:01] They know, you know, the day that you're flying and you get a custom page and retailers have really had to try to catch up in order to deliver a similar level of customer experience to their shoppers. I think that's what's gonna happen with kind of the LLM shopping, right? People are gonna get used to searching with natural language, they're gonna get used to seeing personalized recommendations.

[00:29:18] So I think it's a lot of those. Experiences that perhaps those other platforms are going to really kind of pioneer that are gonna have to be translated onto the brand website. Now, all that said I don't, I mean, I think it's inevitable that people are gonna be shopping on these sites. I think it just depends on what category are you shopping for? Do you want it to be auto replenishment? Yes. I know that I'm gonna have to buy, another set of size three diapers in in a couple of weeks. So yeah, sure, go do that on my behalf. But when I'm looking for maybe a cocktail dress for my 20 year high school reunion, I'm probably gonna wanna take that one into my own hands.

[00:29:48] Like, yeah, maybe, maybe get some custom recommendations, but I'm not just gonna be like, have at it.

[00:29:52] Ricardo Belmar: Right, right.

[00:29:54] Krystina Gustafson: Guess there's gonna. That. So we won't even dig into that. But you know, I think it's really gonna [00:30:00] depend on category, it's gonna depend on, you know, shopper mission. There's just, there's so many variables here.

[00:30:04] So I think that I, I think especially at this phase, which I understand why, again, it's very early days, but it, it tends to be, from my experience, an oversimplification of, of things. And I think even like thinking about today's capabilities, you know, in the LLMs and just, who's the merchant of record, where they're getting their product data.

[00:30:19] There's a lot of short term things also that need to be solved in order to kind of get to this euphoric state. So, I think, we really wanna make sure we're kind of tackling, tackling both, both of

[00:30:27] Casey Golden: Yeah,

[00:30:28] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:30:28] Krystina Gustafson: of the story.

[00:30:29] Casey Golden: I mean, retail and tech has had a little bit of like, I mean they've had a culture clash. For a while. And one of the things that I find really interesting, especially with this conversation with AI, is that retail rarely experiments with the end consumer. It really experiment with staff and internal processes before experimenting with a consumer.

[00:30:53] And the tech industry will experiment with a consumer in like a two week sprint. Like, let's just [00:31:00] throw it out there. And I definitely see like this culture clash of like, we're not ready to take any of these conversations or experience because the risk is so high on the retail side with that customer relationship and experience.

[00:31:14] But then on the tech side, it's just like, push, push, push, push. Where do you see anywhere where AI is delivering like a real ROI in retail right now and something that is moving forward in a meaningful way. I'm seeing a lot more on the B2B side and like supply chain and, ops versus cx, but to get some of these efficiency gains.

[00:31:39] What are you seeing on your end with these conversations with retailers?

[00:31:43] Krystina Gustafson: I think that's largely right. It's interesting, I've had a couple conversations with folks about that very same topic. There are some organizations that are rethinking how they position their AI leaders to be more growth focused versus efficiency focused. So I think. I think we will see that [00:32:00] inflection point coming, but I would say it's more the rarity these days. It is more conversation about efficiency still.

[00:32:06] To your question about ROI I would say two other areas that I would add where people are seeing real results is customer insights. And using synthetic data for, faster product development getting consumer reaction to marketing campaigns or, or whatever it is.

[00:32:21] And the other one would be not like as much CX but CS and the customer service side. And so we're actually gonna have the COO of Minted do a case study about their partnership with, Sierra, just talking about those customer service use cases. She's gonna go pretty deep into, not only just how they selected them, the results they're seeing, but also how they rewire their organization a little bit to bring the customer service agents, the, the human customer service agents, I should clarify, along on the journey and kind of upskilled them as they implemented that top technology. So I think that'll be be a pretty interesting one for people who are looking for real term ROI type of examples.

[00:32:52] Casey Golden: I love the phrase you used, like rewiring. Roles and teams are [00:33:00]evolving. There's a level of fear throughout every industry about how fast and how they're evolving. What do you think an AI native organization looks like or will look like?

[00:33:13] Krystina Gustafson: Wow. It's again, a great question. I think it's easier for the businesses that are, building themselves from the ground up that way. I was actually looking yesterday gosh, don't quote me, I'm gonna forget the name of the company, but Maryam Mafei, who had founded Minted she just started a new company where you basically go in, plug in to their marketplace, you know, a piece of jewelry that you wanna design, and then it hooks you up with designers who will design it, produce it for you and then, service you with that solution.

[00:33:37] So that's a company that, from the ground up is being built on ai. I think for other companies, they're gonna have to more shift to being AI first. And it's not going to be easy and it's not going to be pretty. And there's gonna be a lot of silo removal, a lot of upskilling you know, even just kind of on the upskilling front 'cause maybe that's the easier thing.

[00:33:53] Funny enough to kind of tackle, you know, there's not even a consensus on that, right? Some people are bringing in the big consulting firms to lead [00:34:00] sessions. Some people are setting mandates about, you need to be AI literate by this point. But I think even kind of going back to what we were talking about earlier, like where do you even give people the space in their day?

[00:34:08] Right? It, it feels like.

[00:34:09] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah,

[00:34:10] Casey Golden: like.

[00:34:10] where do you get the space in the day to even think of? Use cases or learning, right? Being on the startup side, Monday was a learning day for me. I experimented, I vibe coded. I downloaded new software. I tried new things. I watched YouTube videos. I did a course, like I spent a whole day just playing.

[00:34:32] Krystina Gustafson: Yeah.

[00:34:33] Casey Golden: And that's something I could, you know, would never think that anybody that I know can do in a corporate environment is to just sign up and test it and like run some things through the system and see what do you like, what do you not like? What's working, what's not working? Learn it. It's hard to learn by reading.

[00:34:53] Especially in this this

[00:34:54] Ricardo Belmar: that's true.

[00:34:55] Casey Golden: Um, there's oh, I forgot what I was gonna say. [00:35:00] Well, I guess it must not have been that important, but

[00:35:03] Ricardo Belmar: Well.

[00:35:03] Krystina Gustafson: do.

[00:35:03] Casey Golden: this is it. The tech side has often lacked the business process, acu, the business acumen. And this is one of the one areas where if you're not tech, a technical first executive, you can be, and I think that understanding the business and having the business acumen of how the product is sold and made and coming up with those use cases, I think that AI is going to be one of the most compelling motivators to bring the business of retail and the tech of retail to finally make them friends.

[00:35:48] Krystina Gustafson: Yeah.

[00:35:49] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:35:49] Yeah,

[00:35:50] Krystina Gustafson: I love that. That's actually, I mean, that's a big part of our approach, to be honest, right? Like we have a ton of people with data, AI, type titles, but then we also [00:36:00]have a lot of business leaders and right, that's intentional because we wanna make

[00:36:02] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:03] Krystina Gustafson: businesses are talking to each other and the CIOs who have been like trying to convince their CCEO forever.

[00:36:08] And Ricardo, to your point, oh, we need a CDP, or we need X, Y, z. Like they, they don't listen to them, but maybe they'll listen to the other people

[00:36:16] Ricardo Belmar: yeah, yeah. Well, that then I think that's why it's so unique in this case that you know how you're bringing everyone together in these more smaller sized sessions, right? So that people can actually interact and have these conversations and build those relationships in a form where they might otherwise not get a chance to. So I think that's a, a really valuable, valuable thing that's gonna happen here, in Retail Club.

[00:36:36] Event Details and Future Thoughts

[00:36:36] Ricardo Belmar: With that in mind, one thing I have to ask you is what happens after September's event? What's the long-term vision for Retail Club?

[00:36:43] Krystina Gustafson: It's a great question. You know, I would say we're candidly still figuring it out. We are launching this, eye roll, "at the speed of AI," but I think we literally decided to launch this thing at the end of May. So it's been about 60 days. And we have about 30 ish, 45, I don't know, don't, don't even [00:37:00] tell me how many days it is until, until the event.

[00:37:02] And so I think what we saw was the pace of change was happening so fast, we needed to, we just needed to go to market. Right. Even if I think back to the time in May we were basically operating at that point, and Ricardo, I know you and I had talked about this we were operating under the thesis that as AI continued to mature, it was gonna increasingly verticalize.

[00:37:20] It's what again, like two months later and it, I mean, that has already come to fruition, right? So again, it's just we gotta run fast at this thing. We gotta move and really kind of be first to market to get people to really kind of trust the brand for the long term. I think as we figure out what's next there are a couple of things we think might happen.

[00:37:36] I think, one is we do really want to focus on meaningful connections, more of a community focus. And so I think what that will probably mean is not getting to the 10,000 attendee mark, how we've previously done in the past. You know, maybe they would get slightly bigger, more of a festival style. Maybe, maybe like 1500.

[00:37:55] Um, maybe we keep the retreat style, you know, if people really like this format and they, they feel good about [00:38:00] 500, you know, would we do dinners? Would we do things in local markets? I think there's a lot of opportunities and what we kind of wanna do is get this one off the ground, see what our attendees think.

[00:38:08] Get a lot of.

[00:38:09] Raw feedback and then just kind of, iterate from there. The other thing that Anil Agarawal, our, our founder and CEO talks a lot about is we would be ignorant not to recognize that events are also gonna be disrupted by AI. And so, you know, what does the future of events look like in an AI world?

[00:38:23] I mean, if there are fewer people at, Casey, we were talking about if there are fewer people working in a retail organization, it's probably a lot harder to pull off a event of 10,000 people. So, so there's a lot of considerations along, along that front as well. But, but you know, I think our founders have always been very product obsessed very kind of community focused.

[00:38:40] So I think some of those ethos, no matter where we go, that'll be a constant, but I think what exactly it looks like is a little bit up in the air.

[00:38:48] Casey Golden: So 10 years from now, what's the most cringe thing we're gonna be looking back about 2025 and retail AI.

[00:38:57] Krystina Gustafson: Okay, so I'm gonna base this off [00:39:00] of 10 years ago at Shop Talk and all the people that were like, e-commerce isn't a thing. Um, I think

[00:39:06] it's gonna be.

[00:39:07] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:39:08] Krystina Gustafson: think it's gonna be less that people don't believe that AI is transformational. I don't know, maybe I'm just like in my own little bubble where I think everyone is a believer in AI that's probably not the case.

[00:39:16] I do think, Ricardo, to your point, there are a lot of people who are disillusioned with failed projects, whatever it might be. Um, but I think the cringe thing will be the people who actively tried to prevent their organizations from embracing it. You know, some of those maybe executives who are like, ah, you know, I've only got five years left in, in the office.

[00:39:34] I'm just gonna, you know, ignore this, not upskill myself. And so I think it's the people that kind of like actively ignore it

[00:39:39] Casey Golden: You know what? That is so real. I've

[00:39:41] Ricardo Belmar: that's true.

[00:39:42] Casey Golden: literally heard people say Casey, I got two years left. I got pension. I'm not trying to shake any trees.

[00:39:49] Ricardo Belmar: Right?

[00:39:50] Yep. Yeah. It happens.

[00:39:51] love you, support you,

[00:39:52] Casey Golden: Love you, support you, but not doing anything.

[00:39:55] Krystina Gustafson: And just think about like their organizations, all those people under them. That's to me why it's so [00:40:00] cringe. It's like, I understand there's a natural human instinct to resist change, but your decisions impact a lot of people

[00:40:05] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:06] Yeah.

[00:40:07] Casey Golden: Yeah. Well, it definitely feels like Retail Club is shaping up to be a unique experience for retailers. It sounds like your team is working really hard to create this AI first experience in a way that delivers what retailers and brands have been asking for and what we've been seeing on the show too.

[00:40:26] So thank you so much for joining us today and sharing more about Retail Club, what it is, what makes it special. Huntington Beach, it's a great location, so.

[00:40:37] Krystina Gustafson: For sure. And I'll just add you know, the deadline to register for anyone who's interested is August 22nd. So make sure you go register. It's just retailclub.com and retailers and brands qualify for up to $1,250 in travel reimbursement if they participate in our hosted program. So there's my shameless plug, for anyone

[00:40:54] who, who's

[00:40:55] interested.

[00:40:56] Ricardo Belmar: We'll, have that in the show notes too for everybody. Well, thanks [00:41:00] again, Krystina. I know I'm really looking forward to this event. It really feels so different from other retail events like you and I have talked about before. I think it really brings a good personal touch and educational twist to the whole retail conference format.

[00:41:12] And I think that's been missing for a while for most retailers and brands. So thanks again for joining us today.

[00:41:16] Krystina Gustafson: Thanks for having me.

[00:41:17] Casey Golden: Ricardo, I'd say that's a wrap.

[00:41:26] Show Close

[00:41:26] Casey Golden: If you enjoyed our show, we have a simple ask. Please consider giving us a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Goodpods. Remember to smash that subscribe button in your favorite podcast player. Like and subscribe to our YouTube channel so you don't miss a minute. As always, a huge thank you to our amazing good pods listeners for helping us consistently rank in the top three spots on Indie Management and Indie Marketing Podcast Chart with every episode.

[00:41:59] I'm Casey [00:42:00] Golden.

[00:42:00] Ricardo Belmar: Please follow us and share your feedback at Retail Razor on LinkedIn, Bluesky, Threads and Instagram. If you wanna preview highlights and transcripts from each episode writing your email inbox, please subscribe to our Substack newsletter.

[00:42:13] The Retail Razor Show is part of the Retail Razor Podcast Network.

[00:42:17] I'm Ricardo Belmar.

[00:42:19] Casey Golden: Thanks for joining us.

[00:42:21] Ricardo Belmar: Until next time, keep cutting through the clutter and stay sharp.

[00:42:24] This is the Retail Razor Show.

[00:42:26]