DB S2E17 - Perficient - Brandon Rael & Rupa Amin

[00:00:00] "We're Not Sure If It Helped": Retail's AI Spend Problem

[00:00:00]

[00:00:01] Rupa Amin: We tried to do something with AI. We're not sure if it helped."

[00:00:06] Casey Golden: That's what retail leaders are admitting about their AI spend

[00:00:09] Ricardo Belmar: Meanwhile, AI shopping agents are skipping your products. No abandoned cart, no bounce rate, no trail whatsoever. You never know you lost the sale.

[00:00:18] Casey Golden: Ricardo went live at Shoptalk Fall with Brandon Rael and Rupa Amin from Perficient to dig into what retailers should be doing

[00:00:28] Ricardo Belmar: Plus a real project called "Do Not Replace Bob!"

[00:00:32] Casey Golden: Who's Bob? Grab a coffee and stay with us, or watch and let's find out

[00:00:37] ​

[00:00:37] 64% of Retail Leaders Can't Prove Their AI ROI

[00:00:42] Ricardo Belmar: Welcome to season two, episode 17 of the Data Blades podcast retail data junkies.

[00:00:48] I'm Ricardo Belmar.

[00:00:49] Casey Golden: And I'm Casey Golden.

[00:00:50] Ricardo, I'm still just a tad bit upset that you were at Shoptalk Fall without me. So let me guess, agentic commerce came [00:01:00] up a couple times?

[00:01:01] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, more like once or twice every five minutes, I think. Go figure. But really wanted to go a little bit deeper than what was, being said on stages. So, wanna find out what it really takes to turn AI activity into real business results, which is honestly what everyone really wants, right? So I sat down live in Nashville with two people from Perficient who do this work with retailers, brands, and distributors every single day

[00:01:27] Casey Golden: That's right. You had Brandon Rael, director and retail strategist for the Retail and Consumer Goods Practice, and one of our OG Retail Avengers from the Retail Razor Show. Obviously no stranger to the podcast network. Plus Rupa Amin, senior director of strategy for the Retail and Consumer Goods Practice.

[00:01:47] Ricardo Belmar: And we drove the conversation around Perficient's new State of the Industry report for Retail and Consumer. They surveyed 50 director level and above leaders and found that 64% of them don't have reliable data on [00:02:00] their own AI ROI

[00:02:01] Casey Golden: Which is not surprising to anybody right now.

[00:02:04] Ricardo Belmar: That's right.

[00:02:06] Casey Golden: But it's exactly the question every board is about to ask every single retail CEO come the new fiscal year

[00:02:15] Ricardo Belmar: That's 100% right. So we also get into what we're calling the "invisible lost sale" when a consumer AI agent passes over your product. And also why almost half of leaders are funding AI in the wrong order, it turns out. And a project with, I think, the best name I've heard in weeks.

[00:02:35] Casey Golden: Okay. With a setup like that, I really need to know what the project name is. But before we get into all of that, why don't you tell us a little bit about the episode sponsor, Perficient?

[00:02:48] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Powered by 7,000-plus advisors, engineers, and designers, Perficient implements AI-first solutions that break conventions and deliver outcomes that matter. They're proudly serving clients that [00:03:00] represent the world's most innovative brands. Perficient brings deep industry expertise and data-driven design to redefine how businesses run and succeed. Perficient's recent report on the state of the retail and consumer industry could be your next step to turning disruption into opportunity. Visit the link in the show notes to read it today.

[00:03:19] Now let's head to Nashville for my conversation with Brandon Rael and Rupa Amin from Perficient

[00:03:25] Live at Shoptalk Fall: Turning AI Activity Into Results

[00:03:30] Ricardo Belmar: Welcome to another Data Blades podcast, live and in person from Shoptalk Fall here in Nashville. Today, we are talking, you might have guessed this, it's more agentic commerce because that's what we're, we're talking about here. And we're really gonna focus in on what it takes to turn AI activity at a retail business into real business results, which I- I think goes a little bit deeper than maybe what a lot of the conversations here have been happening.

[00:03:56] So I'm joined by two amazing people from Perficient, who [00:04:00] are actually doing this real work with retailers, who have some hands-on experience to, to talk to and talk about, working with retailers, brands, and distributors every day. And longtime listeners and viewers will, of course, recognize one of our guests as one of our original- Retail Avengers. so Brandon Rael. Thank you, Brandon.

[00:04:18] Brandon Rael: My pleasure.

[00:04:18] Ricardo Belmar: Thanks for being here with us.

[00:04:19] Brandon Rael: Absolutely.

[00:04:20] Ricardo Belmar: And of course, we also have Rupa Amin. Thank you for being here-

[00:04:22] Rupa Amin: Thank you ...

[00:04:22] Ricardo Belmar: w- with me as well.

[00:04:23] Rupa Amin: Pleasure.

[00:04:23] Ricardo Belmar: So why don't we start, but I'll let you, I'll, I'll let you each do, a quick one or two sentence intro- Okay and tell everyone what you're doing and for the audience that isn't familiar, what Perficient does.

[00:04:32] Brandon Rael: Yeah, I'll go first. so Brandon Rael, a member of the Retail Avengers. Yep. The original, part of your journey. So, been in the retail and commerce space for over 20 years. My career is kind of a two-phased, journey.

[00:04:42] I've, I had a really hands-on experience as a retailer- Mm-hmm ... running merchandising, supply chain, and strategy, across a variety of retailers. And the other two-thirds of my career has been on the consulting and transformation- Mm-hmm ... and, both with delivery, pre-sales, and strategy. And lately I've been doing a lot of work in the agentic AI space, defining the new [00:05:00] commercial solutions, working with partners, working with our clients, and really trying to measure business outcomes through agentic, solutions, and really getting to the heart of what we can do to make an impact on the P&L and the customer experience.

[00:05:11] Ricardo Belmar: Great. Fantastic. Rupa?

[00:05:13] Rupa Amin: Thanks, Brandon. Rupa Amin. Thank you for having me. I'm a strategist on our retail and consumer practice- at Perficient. Perficient's a global, consultancy. We led with AI, 7,000 employees, consultants, experts across the globe.

[00:05:29] And we help brands think about AI, think about it strategically- ... but also just building that strategy to execution roadmap. That's what we excel in. And for someone who's been in the business for 20 years doing commerce- in the distribution, retail space, I focus a lot more on the operational side of things.

[00:05:49] Okay.

[00:05:49] Brandon Rael: Right. Okay.

[00:05:49] Rupa Amin: And so when I talk to brands, as a strategist, my main concern, or the goal, is to help them drive their outcomes. What happens from the stores- Okay, yeah ... in the [00:06:00]warehouse, in in-inventory optimizations.

[00:06:01] Ricardo Belmar: Okay. Great. Well, this is a, a timely then that we're having this conversation- Exactly ... 'cause this is exactly what we wanna get into, so let's just jump in.

[00:06:08] The Invisible Lost Sale: When AI Shopping Agents Skip You

[00:06:08] Ricardo Belmar: Brandon, I'm gonna start-

[00:06:09] Brandon Rael: Absolutely,

[00:06:10] Ricardo Belmar: with you. Yeah. So, you know, something, and this has come up, I think I've heard this, in some sessions here at Shoptalk. Something I feel every retail and brand leader's probably staying up at night worrying about this. But- Right ... you know, we have AI agents out there- Mm-hmm ... in front of consumers- Yes

[00:06:23] and they're using them to do some of their shopping, where the agents are acting in some way, whether it's on the discovery side or purchase side, on their behalf.

[00:06:31] Brandon Rael: Right.

[00:06:31] Ricardo Belmar: And, it's helping them compare products, check inventory. So- But what, here's the problem though, right? So what happens is now, because the agent's doing the work instead of the consumer, it could pass over your product completely.

[00:06:43] Brandon Rael: Totally. Yes.

[00:06:43] Ricardo Belmar: Right? And you don't really get any data out of that because there's no abandoned cart-

[00:06:48] on, on your e-commerce site. There's no bounce rate that you can look at from your website.

[00:06:52] Brandon Rael: Right.

[00:06:52] Ricardo Belmar: There's no trail.

[00:06:53] Brandon Rael: Exactly.

[00:06:53] Ricardo Belmar: Right? So you don't even know that you potentially lost a customer that way, that AI guided somewhere else.

[00:06:59] Brandon Rael: Exactly. [00:07:00] Yeah.

[00:07:00] Ricardo Belmar: So I'm gonna ask you, how real is this, let's call it invisible lost sale today, and how would you tell companies to get ready for this?

[00:07:09] Yeah. I think we should

[00:07:09] Brandon Rael: start with, really ground setting here. There, the establishment is really at, there's still 85% of the business in, in retail stores-

[00:07:16] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah

[00:07:17] Brandon Rael: approximately, give or take.

[00:07:17] Ricardo Belmar: Right.

[00:07:18] Brandon Rael: Considering we're second and there is 10 to 15% is e-commerce, one and 2% is social commerce. But again, this whole conference and Shop Talk and all the latest conferences I've been to that over the last year, agentic commerce is the rage. It's happening- Mm-hmm. Right ... at a pace of change that we're not...

[00:07:32] it's very relentless, and we're seeing that, solutions are coming through where agents are acting on behalf of consumers.

[00:07:37]

[00:07:37] So to become agent ready is actually another critical imperative. If you don't have the level of tech specs, of reviews, of, of, product attributions you had before, I mean, you had to really build that resiliency in the past.

[00:07:49] Now, it's a whole nother level because your, your agent is actually the objective. It's, it's, it's intelligent, it's quantifiable, and it's not really using any emotions like a person would. So acting on behalf of a consumer, it's [00:08:00] really all the, the science element in it. So you gotta make sure you're, you have the resiliency, you have the level of data you need, and you're prepared for it.

[00:08:07] And err on the side of having more data than less. And that's what we encourage our clients to, build these resilient operating models- Yeah ... and agent ready because it will become an emerging force, if not its own channel in the future- it, it will have some influence on your shopping decisions going forward as AI- becomes more intuitive in our lifestyle.

[00:08:22] Rupa Amin: Yeah.

[00:08:22] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. And I think you bring up an interesting point there because we're, at least for now, is we're really talking about a portion of that e-commerce sales pie- Right ... if you will, right? Because like you said, 85% is still in stores, but there is a concern, right?

[00:08:35] Sure. Because everyone's v- very dependent on those e-commerce sales, and this is impacting that-

[00:08:39] Brandon Rael: Yep ...

[00:08:39] Ricardo Belmar: directly. And I'll, I'll just throw out one interesting thing. Adobe has lots of stats on this, and they are, are out with the recent report, I think, that, you know, 393% of AI, referred traffic is how fast it's growing, right?

[00:08:51] So like massive growth. Now granted, it's small to begin with, so when you grow small numbers, the percentages are high. But what it really tells us is that it's not [00:09:00] something you want to ignore, right?

[00:09:01] Brandon Rael: And yet one more point is, you know, agents may actually buy on your behalf and make entry decisions.

[00:09:05] Mm-hmm.

[00:09:06] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. '

[00:09:06] Brandon Rael: Cause we're seeing increasingly the Gen Z-ers and millennials and even all generations that matter-

[00:09:10] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm. ...

[00:09:10] Brandon Rael: are leveraging AI for discovery. Yeah. They're relying on agents to do, everything autonomously.

[00:09:14] Ricardo Belmar: Right. Right.

[00:09:15] Brandon Rael: So be ready for it.

[00:09:16] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. And Rupa, I want to ask you- That's all on the B2C side.

[00:09:20] Why B2B Buyers Still Want a Sales Rep in the AI Era

[00:09:20] Ricardo Belmar: But you deal a lot with B2B commerce, in, in your work, especially with, I think with distributors. Yeah. What... How does it look, in that space?

[00:09:29] Rupa Amin: Similar, but dynamic, right? Mm-hmm. It's complex. B2B is not easy.

[00:09:33] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:09:33] Rupa Amin: And we are drawing, a grayer lines between a B2C experience and B2B lately a lot-

[00:09:39] because the buyer mindset is shifting. And so when we think about the majority distributor buyers, 50% of those are really just going through the AI-led experiences- Mm-hmm ... from a product discovery standpoint. But if you think about it, majority of them, over 70% of them still rely [00:10:00]on that rep connection,

[00:10:01] Ricardo Belmar: right?

[00:10:01] Hmm.

[00:10:01] Rupa Amin: Yeah, yeah. Because they still wanna make sure that they're buying the right product- or what it can do for them. And so when you think about it from an organization standpoint, the rep mindset is changing- Hmm ... or should be changing.

[00:10:14] Ricardo Belmar: Okay.

[00:10:14] Rupa Amin: Right? They should be going from thinking about, "Hey, let me show you what all our product catalog can do."

[00:10:21] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:21] Rupa Amin: To really just saying that you've researched these products on AI- Mm-hmm ... AI resulted these products, now let me tell you whether that's validate- and accurately confirm. Hmm. And then really just talk about things that are aspects of the products that AI did not share with them.

[00:10:37] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:38] Rupa Amin: So it's a completely different mindset- Yeah

[00:10:40] and it's a foundational shift from how a traditional sales model has been working- Yeah ... at least in the B2B industry.

[00:10:46] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:47] Rupa Amin: It's a big shift, but they're not, they're not ready for it yet.

[00:10:50] Ricardo Belmar: Right, yeah. You

[00:10:50] Rupa Amin: still see that.

[00:10:50] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Do, do you think that o- over time on the, the things may move faster in terms of fully automating this, these kind of transactions with, with agents [00:11:00] on the B2B side versus B2C?

[00:11:01] Rupa Amin: I think the shift is happening. Yeah. The architectural, demands are drastically shifting- Mm-hmm ... and it's quickly picking up pace. And so a lot of the gaps that we see on the data side are getting filled. Mm-hmm. Now, we do have leaders who are not making decisions. The, the, the decision factor- Yeah

[00:11:21] is lacking. Right. Yeah. And so when you don't make a decision, it's really lagging behind the culture- Yeah ... and the entire industry. That's kind of where- Yeah ... we're seeing the fallouts happening.

[00:11:32] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Yeah, I guess there's a little bit of anxiety over, over whether you make that decision now or is it safer to wait.

[00:11:38] Rupa Amin: Correct.

[00:11:38] Ricardo Belmar: Right. Right. Yeah. So you've said in, in the past that we're, we're kind of over the platform era, and we're now moving into this intelligence era. Yes, yeah. but the challenge is there's no real map to, to what's happening. So if we think about, like... Le- let's get a read on, on where things stand.

[00:11:54] Because everybody will say if you ask them, of course, AI is a strategic priority.

[00:11:58] Rupa Amin: Yes.

[00:11:59] Ricardo Belmar: Right? Ev- every [00:12:00] business will say that. But- Not everybody's actually getting those AI projects into production. Right. They're getting stuck in pilot mode. Yes. Right? And then I think it's also true, at least from what I'm hearing as well, that even if they have moved some projects into production, they're still not really able to tell you what it's worth.

[00:12:17] Yes. You know, how much value are they getting out of it? Yes. So, you know, tell me what... H- How are you reading that today?

[00:12:22] Rupa Amin: We can break that down into statistics, right? Yeah. So I'll give you an example. 2026 Perficient- ... did a study. We consulted and we surveyed our top directors, 50 of them.

[00:12:34] They're in a decision-making position every day.

[00:12:36] Teams look at them for making decisions- ... taking charge on things. And so when we really think about the numbers and how it breaks down to somebody- ... who's taking a strategic priority Mm-hmm ... versus someone who's really just pivoting with it, you will see that they don't even have the impact measured- So that 20% that really just pivoted and made it into production, they're [00:13:00]there, but what did AI do for them?

[00:13:01] Right?

[00:13:02] Ricardo Belmar: Right.

[00:13:02] Rupa Amin: So the, the, the financial impact is missing- hence, is the outcome. And when we think about the state of the industry, that's what- is covered in our State of the Industry report-

[00:13:11] Mm-hmm ...

[00:13:12] because that's what we have covered in our- Yeah ... in our recent studies.

[00:13:15] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:16] Do Not Replace Bob: The Hidden Baseline Killing Your ROI

[00:13:20] Ricardo Belmar: It's interesting you, you say that. So I came from another conference last week where, I actually, moderated a panel discussion with some retailers where this point came up about how they're measuring- Right- that value. And one of the interesting things that came up in my discussion with them is that a part of the challenge they're having is that when you measure the value of something new, you really wanna compare it against a baseline of where you were before. And what both... two retailers, they had one that was an e-commerce-only retailer- Mm-hmm- one that was a store-based discount retailer, both said the same thing, that they found that in the majority of these projects where they're trying to apply AI and either automate or replace an existing process- They didn't actually have the existing process right. Correct. You know, what they thought was the process was not the process.

[00:13:58] Right. Yeah. It may have been documented-

[00:13:59] Brandon Rael: Right ...

[00:13:59] Ricardo Belmar: [00:14:00] but it wa- hadn't been followed for five years. Exactly. You know, there was someone in a d- department in a dark hallway named Bob- ... who knew exactly what was happening. Right. But he was the only one. Yes. Yeah. And so as part of the project- Yeah ... they ended up with a completely new process.

[00:14:12] Yes. Which kind of, I, I feel that makes it a little bit of a challenge to measure that ROI when your baseline is a moving target.

[00:14:18] Rupa Amin: Yes, absolutely. And I think, Brandon, feel free to jump in- Sure ... but I think we talk to brands all day long. Right. And you'll be surprised to hear that we have projects that call Do Not Replace Bob, right?

[00:14:31] Hmm. And so the idea is that- Yeah ... we're baselining it against what the current challenges are. Yeah. Taking an in-depth look at- Right ... what you're doing today, and really assessing where the gaps are. Mm-hmm. I see this as a leadership gap that is just wrapped- Hmm, yeah ... around in a technology costume, because-

[00:14:48] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, that's really a leadership gap, not a technology gap.

[00:14:51] Rupa Amin: Right, because- 100%, yeah ... leaders are not sure where do they want to invest in AI. Mm-hmm. Which aspect of the business they really want to [00:15:00] focus on- Yeah ... solving with AI. And having, take any KPI, there's tons of KPIs out there- Right ... that we have traditionally measured. Correct. Abandoned carts, customer retention, you name it.

[00:15:11] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:11] Rupa Amin: But with AI c- coming in, we almost have to look at how we're baselining, but also- Yeah ... how we're measuring.

[00:15:18] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm. Right.

[00:15:19] Rupa Amin: And so I would encourage all the leaders to take a harder look at their current state-

[00:15:25] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm ...

[00:15:25] Rupa Amin: and be honest about where the gaps are. Right. Right. And majority of the leaders are being honest with us and saying- Mm-hmm

[00:15:32] "We tried to do something with AI. We're not sure if it helped."

[00:15:36] Brandon Rael: Yeah. Yeah. Right? I think the, the, the credibility lies in tying the AI, agentic AI solutions to a real business challenge.

[00:15:42] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:42] Brandon Rael: Determining what the outcomes you wanna drive, whether it's optimizing- Right ... your supply chain, enhancing your merchandising process, improving your price and promotion capabilities, and, Mm-hmm

[00:15:50] really driving ROI, including EBITDA improvements- Mm-hmm ... cost savings, revenue growth- Yeah ... customer lifetime value. And that's where your new baseline is, whether they have the old- Yeah ... baseline with Bob- ... [00:16:00] or the institutional knowledge, or you start from scratch, a new foundation- Yeah ... 'cause you're taking an innovative first mindset- Mm-hmm- and, eliminating the fear of failure and the fear, and the fear of consequences by taking those into base. Because like you said earlier, the industry is moving at a rapid rate.

[00:16:14] Rupa Amin: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:14] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:14] Brandon Rael: and Rupa alluded to earlier too is you have to keep up with the, the pace of change.

[00:16:17] Ricardo Belmar: Right.

[00:16:18] Brandon Rael: Yep. Or you're left behind-

[00:16:18] Ricardo Belmar: You get left behind, yeah

[00:16:19] Brandon Rael: whether you're in CPG or B2B, or you're in B2C with retail. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's, it's relentless right now, and, Yeah ... requires resilience.

[00:16:25] Ricardo Belmar: Hmm.

[00:16:25] Rupa Amin: Right.

[00:16:26] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Well, l-

[00:16:27] Half of Leaders Are Funding AI in the Wrong Order

[00:16:32] Ricardo Belmar: let's dig into something else I noted in your, in your State of the Industry Report that I think is a really fascinating point. And, Brandon, I'm gonna ask, start with you on this one.

[00:16:34] So in that research, one of the things we saw is that- It, it seems half of leaders that you survey are, are potentially funding AI in the wrong order.

[00:16:43] Brandon Rael: Right.

[00:16:44] Ricardo Belmar: Right? And, and when we think about, you know, the ambitions there, right, there's a desire to do these things and to enhance these, these processes and, and develop new, new, results, get those results that you're looking for even if you've- Right

[00:16:56] defined what those goals are. Mm-hmm. But the results aren't necessarily [00:17:00] showing up, so obviously something is amiss in there.

[00:17:02] Brandon Rael: Right.

[00:17:03] Ricardo Belmar: so what does that mean really when we say that it's, they're doing it out of order?

[00:17:06] Brandon Rael: I think it's a matter of sitting down and having the right people in the room and do a- Mm-hmm

[00:17:11] collaborative design thinking workshop where all the leaders cross-functionally determine-

[00:17:14] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah ...

[00:17:15] Brandon Rael: what's our North Star vision for the company? What do we, what do we promise our shareholders and our board of directors? What's our brand promise to our consumers? How do we keep the North Star goals in line with the consumer behaviors and expectations?

[00:17:26] Mm-hmm. And how can we compete in the marketplace? Yeah. Then prioritize those three to five areas. We're gonna insert agentic AI or AI capabilities within that current process today-

[00:17:34] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm ...

[00:17:35] Brandon Rael: to enhance and optimize a, a process that's either broken or needs improvements. And then tie it to an ROI business case, and tie it to the EBITDA improvements and the, and also the profitability and cost savings.

[00:17:45] Mm-hmm. And then make it a long-term sustainable investment. And really pick those areas that are really, that are impacting the customer journey or empowering- Mm-hmm ... frontline workers or providing the capabilities your corporate office- officers need to drive a great, business model. Yeah

[00:17:57] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. W- what, what do you see [00:18:00] happening in, lots of discussions, especially around retail conferences, right?

[00:18:03] Seem to always start, when it comes to AI, about it... What have you done with your data foundation? Right. Do you have, all of your data sources kind of in alignment? Is everything ready? And admittedly, right, a lot of retailers want to skip this step- ... because that's the hard part, right? Yeah. The hard part is actually, and you said this before, Rupa, you have to take an honest look- Yes Right

[00:18:21] at where you are today- Yes ... and then act based on that. And oftentimes there's a desire to skip ahead or maybe do that in parallel to starting what they perceive as the fun things. Right. So i- is that one of the key things you see differently with the organizations that are actually getting the order right?

[00:18:37] Is, is... Are they really starting at that level and working up from there?

[00:18:41] Brandon Rael: Some do and some don't. Okay. Because I think you come to a conference like Shoptalk Fall and, and you, you see all the innovations- ... the excitement and the momentum and the music- Yeah.

[00:18:49] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah ... and

[00:18:50] Brandon Rael: let's drive AI, agentic AI, and change the world.

[00:18:52] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:18:52] Brandon Rael: But the, the f- the foundation of the house isn't set, the house is gonna fall down the hill or collapse.

[00:18:57] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:57] Brandon Rael: Yeah. and it's not... I know it's not an exciting [00:19:00] conversation to have, but it's a conversation that's critical.

[00:19:02] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:02] Brandon Rael: Mm. You think about the, the retailers I've worked with throughout my career is many of them sell AS400 or an ERP- Mm-hmm.

[00:19:06] Yeah ... or they have data foundations and t- techno debt from 30, 40 years ago.

[00:19:10] Rupa Amin: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:10] Brandon Rael: So how do you, like, elevate the, the level of their capabilities and drive a unified view of the data and, and put governance models in and, and the cloud-enabled data capabilities to really- Mm-hmm ... provide the level of data that's consistent and scalable, resilient, to feed the engine that's gonna drive agentic AI and agentic commerce forward.

[00:19:27] Rupa Amin: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:27] Brandon Rael: Yeah. You, you ha- you can't skip this conversation. And I have this debate all the time with, retail insiders and other- ... other experts. Yeah. And I'll keep, I'll keep- Yeah ... driving it home. I, I- Yeah. You can't, can't move forward without taking care of your foundation first.

[00:19:39] Rupa Amin: It's very easy to get energized and inspired- Mm.

[00:19:42] Right ... when you come to these events. Yeah. Or even listening to us talk about this stuff and say, "We're, we're... I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna change the entire world- Mm-hmm ... and I'm gonna go back and change the way we do business." What it really comes down to is taking a harder look at what you already have.

[00:19:59] Ricardo Belmar:

[00:19:59] Rupa Amin: [00:20:00] Right now, every platform, every technology that you have is innovating- ... is investing in AI. Right. And so rather than questioning whether you have the right technology-

[00:20:09] I think the question is, do we have our data right?

[00:20:12] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:20:13] Rupa Amin: Do we have it in the place where my technology can come in and do the job for me?

[00:20:18] As opposed to just falling back and procrastinating on it- and chase those shiny objects. Yeah,

[00:20:23] Private Label Is Surging: Can AI Even Find Your Product?

[00:20:23] Ricardo Belmar: So, so one example I've had a lot of conversations around in data, particularly with CPGs, is around product level data. And it's becomes that much more important now, of course, with AI models ingesting that product level data in a way that a- as humans we may ignore- Right

[00:20:37] right, and not really process, especially when we're used to keyword-based searching. I, I, I sense too that in, in continuing with that example, right, i- if I look at what's happening with private label-

[00:20:48] Brandon Rael: Yes ...

[00:20:48] Ricardo Belmar: and, and how I think the numbers now are that, you know, private label's at, like, a 23.8% unit share.

[00:20:53] This is the highest it's been, right? And, and I, as a consumer, I can attest to that because I'm buying a lot more private label products- ... at the grocery store than I [00:21:00] used to ever before. Yeah. Yes. And, and I'm finding that it's fine- ... right, as a consumer. It

[00:21:04] Brandon Rael: tastes just as good.

[00:21:04] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. So if, but now if, some of that has a lot to do with how I find those private label products, right?

[00:21:11] 'Cause generally speaking, you don't usually see advertising for a lot of private labels, but yet somehow people are gonna discover it. So if I were to guess, I would expect there are a lot of consumers typing into their favorite LLM, "What are some alternatives for," pick your favorite national brand-

[00:21:25] Brandon Rael: Yes

[00:21:26] Ricardo Belmar: "that I think still have a, you know, a better price but still tastes good?" for example, right? And they're following whatever comes out of that. So the LLMs are pulling this information from somewhere.

[00:21:34] Rupa Amin: Yep.

[00:21:35] Ricardo Belmar: So what, what are you telling any CPGs that you might work with that they should be doing around these data sets?

[00:21:40] Rupa Amin: I think I, I will bring it back to the basics.

[00:21:44] Right. Like, we, again, chasing shiny objects- ... versus just thinking about- Yeah ... the basics. Mm-hmm. CPG brands that are just constantly feared with these private brands that are coming up and getting discovered, but they're not getting discovered, right?

[00:21:59] Brandon Rael: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:59] Rupa Amin: There's could be, [00:22:00] like, terminology jargons out there- Right, right ... AEO and SEO, and how do we get there?

[00:22:04] Brandon Rael: Sure.

[00:22:05] Rupa Amin: The idea is that, are you personalizing for your customers?

[00:22:08] Brandon Rael: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:09] Rupa Amin: Are you thinking about loyalty the right way, right? And so when I'm... For example, you buy a pair of jeans from the store. You know you bought it, the store knows you bought it.

[00:22:19] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:20] Rupa Amin: But you still get emails and ads- ... about going back to the store and buying a- And

[00:22:24] Ricardo Belmar: buying jeans ...

[00:22:25] Rupa Amin: using that same promotion.

[00:22:26] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:22:27] Rupa Amin: That's the kind of disconnect that I'm talking about- where the brands are really not thinking harder-

[00:22:32] about the personalization, and really just catering to your audiences.

[00:22:37] That is a miss. That is a gap. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Now, if you don't connect the two, where the store experience doesn't translate offline and online- That's what's causing them to run behind.

[00:22:47] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:22:48] Rupa Amin: The private brands are gonna sell the product once, but are they gonna deliver on the promises like a CPG brand would- Right

[00:22:54] from a loyalty standpoint?

[00:22:55] Ricardo Belmar: Right. Right.

[00:22:55] Rupa Amin: It's

[00:22:55] Ricardo Belmar: a good point.

[00:22:56] Brandon Rael: That- You'd be remiss to ignore the value conscious and cost-conscious [00:23:00] consumer.

[00:23:00] Rupa Amin: Yeah.

[00:23:00] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:23:00] Brandon Rael: they are looking for these brands- Right ... whether it's through an agent or on their own. Yeah. And, and considering the dis- disrupted economy and the cost of living increases- Yeah

[00:23:07] it's become increasingly important.

[00:23:09] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:23:09] Brandon Rael: Yeah.

[00:23:09] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Yeah. Well, great, good, good point. Yeah.

[00:23:11] Escaping Pilot Purgatory: Ownership Beats Committees

[00:23:16] Ricardo Belmar: So let, let's dig into some of the, the, the work itself that you're both deeply involved in with- with your clients. Mentioned before how there are so many organizations that are getting stuck in pilot mode, and these AI projects just aren't getting past that.

[00:23:24] even as far back as a year ago, which I know feels like an eternity in AI time, But everyone couldn't stop quoting the famous MIT report about how 95% of projects fail, and obviously there was a lot more nuance to that than, than- Sure ... the, the pure number. But, I imagine you're experiencing a lot of this, where you're coming into an organization to work with them, and they have one or more AI projects stuck in pilot mode.

[00:23:47] What- What do you do first? What, what are you actually seeing in there, and how do you address that? How do you tackle that with a, a client to actually get past that point?

[00:23:55] Brandon Rael: I'll go back to my previous point about aligning to the North Star goals and the- Mm-hmm ... and the, and the [00:24:00] objectives- Yeah ... and the strategies for the, whether it's a publicly or traded company or a private company.

[00:24:04] Mm-hmm. You have to establish where you're prioritizing the sequence. Yeah. Aligning all your directors and VPs and SVPs around those objectives and send out messaging throughout the company. These are the three to five areas we're gonna be covering. These are the three i- five areas we're gonna prioritize and drive revenue growth and EBITDA- Mm-hmm

[00:24:19] and cost savings and, improve customer experiences. Then you can actually elevate these pilots to enterprise rollouts.

[00:24:26] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:26] Brandon Rael: Until you're al- now, if you're not aligned to your, North Star goals and the objectives of the company and have the change management needed- that will transcend throughout the company,

[00:24:35] You're doomed to fail. I mean, it's, it's change management 101, it's executive sponsorship, and it's, Mm-hmm ... the partnership that we have at Perficient with our clients, we always emphasize the importance of sponsorship, of, co-creation and collaboration. Mm-hmm. And, and they believe in what their change is and, and then how to drive it forward because there are so many passionate, determined people in the retail and CPG industries.

[00:24:54] Yeah. And that's why I lo- I love this industry so much because- Yeah ... they're, they're great to partner with, they know it so well, [00:25:00] and, and they build these trusted partnerships with companies like Perficient- to drive growth and transformation. I couldn't be happier to be in the space.

[00:25:05] Rupa Amin: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:06] And I think one other thing that is really, shifting the mark, if you will, is- ... it's not so much about the committee driving the projects- Yeah ... it's the ownership and the accountability. Yes.

[00:25:15] Brandon Rael: Yes.

[00:25:15] Ricardo Belmar: Yes. Yeah.

[00:25:15] Rupa Amin: And so when you have an accountable owner- Mm-hmm ... who's going to own the outcome no matter what- Exactly

[00:25:21] the leaders are not afraid. In fact, when we did the survey, I was pleasantly, or, surprised- Mm-hmm ... to see the leaders really admitting that-

[00:25:29] Ricardo Belmar: Hmm.

[00:25:29] Rupa Amin: Yeah ... "Look, we're using AI. We don't know if it is working for us."

[00:25:33] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:25:33] Rupa Amin: And so when you think about those AI projects, when something goes wrong or something fails and there's a phone call that need to be made- that phone call goes to the owner, not to the committee. Right.

[00:25:43] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:25:43] Rupa Amin: And that's what drives- Right. That's important ... the success, right? Yeah. So-

[00:25:46] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:25:46] Brandon Rael: Timing is everything. Yep.

[00:25:47] Rupa Amin: Exactly. Yeah.

[00:25:47] Brandon Rael: Yep

[00:25:48] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, is there an issue with, is one of the things I, I saw too in the report, about speed versus control over a, a project in terms like the velocity of getting to that end goal, right?

[00:25:57] And, and you had, I, I saw stats that [00:26:00] 38% of leaders were worrying more about moving too fast, 28% were worried about moving too carefully- ... and 34% just weren't aligned at all. So it, it's feels like a pretty even split, so I mean, there's a lot of variation across the board. ... does that kind of map out in what you're seeing when, when you're with clients or?

[00:26:18] Rupa Amin: It does because the, the, again, it g- I will say, back to the basics- Yeah ... understanding who your customers are. Mm-hmm. Yep. What are the customers wanting? Mm-hmm. The voice of the customer is really what is going to drive the conversations in the boardroom-

[00:26:32] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm ...

[00:26:32] Rupa Amin: because it is no longer about what the leaders want or where- Yeah

[00:26:35] the business needs to go. It's really where are our customers and where do we need to meet them? Yeah. And so if the customers are open for the brands to come out, take the risk-

[00:26:45] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm ...

[00:26:46] Rupa Amin: be okay to fail-

[00:26:47] Ricardo Belmar: Yes. Yeah ...

[00:26:47] Rupa Amin: that's great. But if it is, an audience where your customers are just not gonna take the mistakes to the- Mm-hmm

[00:26:55] extent that you would want- ... those are the leaders that are risk-averse. Sure. Yeah. And so [00:27:00] the percentages or the numbers, they kinda speak to that data-

[00:27:03] Ricardo Belmar: Right.

[00:27:03] Rupa Amin: Yeah, yeah ... as to where the customers are really wanting the brands to take the actions-

[00:27:07] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah ...

[00:27:07] Rupa Amin: and ultimate decisions.

[00:27:09] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Yeah, I guess it speaks a lot to how a given organization defines how they approach a strategy for a project, because- Exactly

[00:27:18] I think we probably all have examples of where, there's a desire to get consensus before moving forward, and that leads to the committee approach.

[00:27:27] Brandon Rael: Right.

[00:27:27] Ricardo Belmar: But then you lose the ownership Exactly. Where there might have, there probably was originally an owner, but it gets lost in the noise- Exactly

[00:27:33] in trying to get to that consensus and get every single organization, every department, every siloed area to really buy in- Right ... and, and accept that, yes, we're moving ahead with this, and then the strategy gets clouded.

[00:27:43] Rupa Amin: Yes.

[00:27:44] Ricardo Belmar: Right? Yes. Agreed. Yeah.

[00:27:46] The One Thing to Do Monday Morning Before the Board Asks

[00:27:46] Ricardo Belmar: So I guess I wanna, as one probably important question maybe to close on for each of you to, to comment on.

[00:27:52] Brandon Rael: Sure.

[00:27:53] Ricardo Belmar: you know, I recently did an episode talking about what board level expectations are for AI projects with retailers. [00:28:00] So, what I'm thinking of is, if a board's ultimately gonna ask your C-suite, we've invested in AI, we've put up some capital to do a lot of these projects.

[00:28:08] And obviously they're gonna ask you at some point down the road, "All right-

[00:28:11] Brandon Rael: Right ...

[00:28:12] Ricardo Belmar: What did we get?" What, what outcome was delivered? how successful was it, and how good was... You know, did we hit the original goal when- Right ... you came and said that we needed to invest in this? So what's the one thing you would tell a leader, either a retail leader, a CPG leader, that's listening that, they need to do Monday morning before they get asked that question-

[00:28:32] Brandon Rael: Right

[00:28:33] Ricardo Belmar: so that they have a tangible answer instead of just an activity list?

[00:28:36] Brandon Rael: Yeah. I think it goes back to accountability, ownership, and responsibility. And that you're the sponsor for this initiative, and you own it. And it's an, it's not just another KPI that you can dismiss.

[00:28:45] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:46] Brandon Rael: You're defining what it is.

[00:28:47] Mm-hmm. You establish the, the baseline, the benchmarks, and you're driving what the ROI should be in co-creation with their consulting partners or your internal teams. Mm-hmm. And, where are you driving revenue growth and savings and increased conversions [00:29:00] and, and, and margin improvements and supply chain optimization.

[00:29:03] And that's really your, your benchmarks every Monday morning. Mm-hmm. And that... And it all comes down to revenue. Yeah. It all comes down to growth. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we're, in this economy and in this, environment and in this industry, you need to, all actions should drive not only, sending customer experience-

[00:29:17] Rupa Amin: Mm-hmm

[00:29:17] Brandon Rael: and, fulfill your brand promise, but achieve those revenue and margin goals. And AI, agentic AI and agentic commerce is another- element and solution, to drive those conversations forward. Mm-hmm. And, and that all comes with accountability. Sure.

[00:29:30] Rupa Amin: Yeah, this quarter.

[00:29:32] Start this quarter. Mm. Do not wait.

[00:29:33] Ricardo Belmar: Good.

[00:29:34] Rupa Amin: Yeah. Right? So pick a KPI. Yeah. Any KPI. Pick a business process, any business process. Introduce AI. Take a baseline snapshot.

[00:29:43] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:43] Rupa Amin: Do not forget to take that snapshot because- ... 12 months down the line when you're going back to the board room-

[00:29:49] Ricardo Belmar:

[00:29:49] Rupa Amin: to have that question answered, what did it yield?

[00:29:51] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:29:51] Rupa Amin: You're not gonna have the data.

[00:29:53] Ricardo Belmar: Right.

[00:29:53] Rupa Amin: You can't compare the before or the after. How are you gonna com- how will you compare? Yeah. Right? Yeah. So I would ask the leaders to really just take a harder look at [00:30:00] these-

[00:30:00] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm ...

[00:30:00] Rupa Amin: strategic AI-driven list- that they have and just pick one.

[00:30:05] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:30:05] Rupa Amin: And just go with it.

[00:30:07] Ricardo Belmar:

[00:30:07] Rupa Amin: That's-

[00:30:07] Ricardo Belmar: ...

[00:30:07] Rupa Amin: as simple as it gets.

[00:30:08] Ricardo Belmar: Ex- yeah, it is, it is simple, isn't it, in that, in that sense? Compared to everything else that we're talking about, that's the simple part.

[00:30:14] Brandon Rael: Yes.

[00:30:14] Ricardo Belmar: I agree. all great suggestions. Before we wrap, just one last thing. We've talked about this, the State of Industry report.

[00:30:20] Mm-hmm. If somebody wants to get ahold of the report and dig into it- where do they go?

[00:30:23] Brandon Rael: It's right on perficient.com. If you go to our industry page for retail consumer, it's right in the middle of the page.

[00:30:27] it's easily accessible and downloadable. And Rupa and I are very active on LinkedIn, and we're, you know, always available for questions or follow-ups.

[00:30:34] And, it's very, it's a very insightful report. It's really a clear reflection where we are in the industry and the moment of opportunity we have and the challenges we have.

[00:30:40] Ricardo Belmar: Okay, great. Well, thank you both for joining me for this.

[00:30:43] It was a great conversation.

[00:30:44] Brandon Rael: Pleasure.

[00:30:44] Ricardo Belmar: I'm gonna look forward to having you both back on the show again in the future.

[00:30:47] We can dig into even more details, and hopefully have even more of these projects to talk about what outcomes did everyone get.

[00:30:53] Rupa Amin: There you go.

[00:30:53] Brandon Rael: sounds like a plan.

[00:30:54] Ricardo Belmar: Awesome. All right.

[00:30:54] Brandon Rael: Appreciate the conversation again. Thanks so much.

[00:30:55] Rupa Amin: Really, really appreciate it, Ricardo.

[00:30:56] Ricardo Belmar: Great. Thank you. Thank you, and thanks everybody for joining us on another Data [00:31:00] Blades episode

[00:31:01] Show Close

[00:31:06] Casey Golden: If you loved the episode, subscribe and drop us a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Goodpods. And if you're watching us on YouTube, like and subscribe before you go. I'm Casey Golden

[00:31:18] Ricardo Belmar: Follow us on LinkedIn, Bluesky, Threads, and Instagram and subscribe to our Substack newsletter for highlights and bonus insights. For transcripts and guest info, visit retailrazor.com. I'm Ricardo Belmar

[00:31:30] Casey Golden: Thanks for joining us on the Retail Razor Data Blades, part of the Retail Razor podcast network

[00:31:36] Ricardo Belmar: Until next time, stay sharp, be data-driven, and AI-enabled.

[00:31:39] This is the Retail Razor: Data Blades